confused prius vs volt

High Power Wall Connector (charging, high power connector, hpc) | Charging | Tesla Motors - at $2k Yikes...

 

Late Adopter here: Get a conventional Prius.

 

Don't wait on the hypermiling. Start practicing with that Subaru right now. Go to CleanMPG.com and read 'Beating the EPA'. Some of these skills will transfer to whatever fuel efficient car you eventually acquire.

I still have a '97 Subaru Legacy GT, stick shift. Its new/old EPA ratings are a smidge worse than the '05 Baja stick, which in turn is a smidge worse than the Baja automatic. My mpg was about the same as yours the first couple years, than improved a couple points for the next decade. But after discovering CleanMPG and adding a ScanGauge, before acquiring a Prius to replace an even older car, I learned how to boost the Subaru to 27-30 winter and 30-33 summer.

If you can keep speed down to 60, I'd hope that the newer Baja could perform similarly.

 

That's why, at this time, an EV is not a good match for a one-car household that needs to make long trips more often than a rental car would be convenient.

But in a two-car household, one car can often be the dedicated commuter, while the other is used for the long trips. Of course, some households need two long-range cars. But many could function quite well with a commuter car and a stinker.

This is not an all or none business. The car makers cannot replace every stinker with an EV over night. And most people cannot afford to trade in a functioning car for a new car. Right now, it's about convincing a few of the many for whom an EV would be a good fit. Talking about limited range is the all-or-none fallacy: If it won't work for everybody than it's no good. EVs are, today, still a niche market. But they fit that niche extremely well, and far more people than realize it would do quite well with an EV.

Battery life remains to be seen. The nay-sayers claimed that Prius would need a new $5,000 battery every three years. Turns out it lasts the life of the car. Cautious people like Natalie should wait until there's data. But rather than claiming without foundation that the Leaf will need a new battery in 5 years, all we can really say truthfully is that we don't know. (I will admit, however, that I choose a car with a bigger battery than I need, so that even a 50% loss every 7 years --the most pessimistic estimate-- would still leave me with far more range in a decade than I'd need.)

 

I like the idea of a used Leaf for the 10-yr old when he/she is 16 starting to drive.
Maybe put in a cheaper small battery, now you have the young driver tethered to home.

 

Agreed. Though 2 cars often have other constraints. Which is why the 35/40mpg of the Volt is not really an that much of an issue for many owners. Its really only used as an EV except for long trips. In my case our second is a AWD Outback (need for hauling, snow in CO, etc) and so the Volt is my EV, but also the "long trip" car.

For me it IS an EV for just about everything except long trips.. trips too far for a leaf where you'd need to use another ice (which might be less than 40mpg on the highway anyhow.) For me the occasional ICE usage (even for the Stupid ERDTLT) is more than made up for in the combination of EV for commute + decent MPG for trips. Compared to my wife's outback, the volt is way better on road trips. If I bought a Leaf I'd have used almost 10 more gallons of gas in the time I've had the Volt as I would have to used 60 gallons in the outback for my ~1600 miles of road trips. My Volt however has used only 42.
(I did consider tesla.. great looks and the 230 range would reduce my ICE "long trips" to half, but the price tag and delay were just too great. )

So if the OP needs the Traverse for lots of things but has enough long trips where the Volt might work, it may be better than Traverse+Leaf. But only the op can do that math..

 

Are you suggesting that Nissan is a naysayer? They are the ones that said it would lose 20% capacity in 5 years. I did not say it would need a new battery, I said it would make the range uncomfortably close for the original poster. It is naive and foolish to discount the words of a manufacturer regarding their own product. If Toyota said the Prius would need a new battery in 5 years I would have wondered about it.

 

Don't know about the Leaf, but I know multiple that were able to talk their Chevy dealer into a 1-2 day mid-week "test drive". That would allow you to see what you can achieve during a commute.

I remember the sick feeling with gave up my truck. Giving you are going to loose the truck for hauling stuff, you might look to acquire (or share/rent from a neighbor like I do) a small utility trailer (My neighbor bought one like this
950 Lb. Capacity Foldable 4 Ft. x 8 Ft. Utility Trailer with 8" Wheels and Tires
and with a sheet of plywood its good for haling landscape stuff behind my wife outback. Should work fine with a traverse as well

 

In my case, those trips are in the 2004 Prius. I consistently get between 50 and 51 mpg on my trips to Canada.

I interpret that as a very cautious and conservative worst-case estimate. But the bottom line is that we really don't know. It took about 5 years for the Prius to go mainstream. Before that, it was mostly early-adopters and tree-huggers that bought it, while everyone else was afraid the battery would not last.

For now, Leaf buyers are probably mostly early adopters and tree-huggers. In five years we'll know how the battery holds up. Until then, we just don't know, and nobody who is not willing to step into the unknown should buy one.

 

I thought you believed in reading owners manuals?

I fail to see how it is a worst case estimate when they say in the very statement that if could be significantly lower.

If the poster keeps a car 8 years and plans to drive 52 miles one way in the winter it would be crazy to buy a Leaf given what the manufacturer says.

 

It's about the money, right? Sure it is or you wouldn't be asking. The answer is simple: don't borrow any money to buy a new car. Borrowing would piss away thousands, more than what you're likely to save on fuel.

 

If you must borrow, borrow less. In the case Prius c is the best choice.

 

Take a look at CleanMPG anyway.

Based on great results from the previous car, I thought my driving was reasonably efficient. But the menu of techniques there went well beyond what I knew, and shattered some misconceptions from the common mythology many of us have collected. The menu does go into territory that only the craziest hardcore hypermilers would attempt, but feel free to pick and chose items that fit your style.

I'd be surprised if you could not reasonably squeeze more out of what you already have, even in winter. As early practice for your next rig, of course.

 

Note that they say, it's only an estimate. They're covering their butts. Also, it's much smarter to promise low and deliver high. Customer satisfaction is much higher for the exact same product if the promises were low than if they were high.

I repeat: We will not know until the car has been on the road for 5 or 6 years.

Don't buy it if you don't believe in the product enough to take a chance with a new technology that has no service history.

Nissan would be letting itself in for a P.R. disaster if the car performs as poorly as you expect it to. Clearly, you should not buy a Leaf. Just as clearly, not everyone shares your pessimism. Only time will tell.

 

On the highway it's likely only going to be as good as the Prius in fuel economy. Possibly worse.

The Prius will only be a few thousand more, and may have incentives available for it. If a person is willing to take the effort to protect the interior, or just doesn't care, the liftback might even be able to handle the firewood load the Baja used to carry. A 2011 Ranger might even be available for a third vehicle, and still be under the cost of the Volt.

With future battery life still having unknowns, a BEV is too much of a risk for the OP's commute. The Focus EV, with thermal pack management, is the only one I'd take a gamble on in that situation. For the same price you can get a Volt though, and not worry at all.

 

I think, to be honest, the reason why the Volt isn't doing too well is just that there isn't a lot of places that will adopt the vehicle mostly due to the infrastructure for the plugin part is still a little weak, even though the Volt is a Gas-Electric hybrid. The cost of it seems also to be the killer point... Of course, as someone mentioned, the PHEVs are going to be treated the same way the Prius was, as it is still a relatively new approach to transportation. While Electric Vehicles are not necessarily new, they are entering a new genre where most of the EVs were small, light utility and now we are looking at them to solve our fuel issues for normal cars.

The hold back is that there are different groups doing their own thing, the chief benefit is not going to see much 'light' til more than just home and the hopeful wall plugin charging is out there, increasing the range for people.

 

I don't know enough about the OP's financial situation to comment on it.

IMO, the OP looks like the poster boy for Volt ownership. He can commute 52 miles on mostly electric and then plug in for 24 hours while he works. If he gets say 40 miles on a charge, then he'll burn about 1/2 to 2/3 of a gallon of gas on a round trip. Paying for 1/2 to 2/3 gallon of gas and half of the electric charge (I assume he charges for free at work), then he's paying around $4 for 104 miles (one round trip commute), which is pretty cheap. A car that gets 20 mpg would cost $20 for the same trip. I can't imagine a better candidate for a Volt.

 

^ Except that he insists that he needs a 5-seat car.

 

I haven't seen any comment from him on needing the fifth seat. Sounded like the wife's car is their family hauler.

He seems the poster boy for the Volt. The concern I have is the charging at work. Great that they'll allow it, but will the circuit handle it? Presumably the car will be charging on the same circuit as the block heaters for the trucks. I'm sure something can be worked out if all at once isn't possible. The Volt charges first then the trucks get the plug to heat up the their blocks before leaving. Get that settled before committing to the price of the Volt. Also consider the costs if charging at work is disallowed. Which, if does happen, leaves a BEV sol.

The numbers probably won't work out for the Prius PHV compared to the Prius. The commute is too long for the EV miles to have an impact versus the higher cost. That's without considering if the the PHV will even be available this year for him.

The Prius is the safe bet. The purchase savings over the Volt could go towards a truck or the kids college funds. It also could take the place of the Traverse for some family uses. That depends on the couple's feelings of sharing the car, however. If they are both flexible, the wife could use the Volt or Prius on his non-commute days. They'd be really racking up the miles on the new car, but the overall savings might be worth it.

Or just get a used Echo, and keep the Baja.