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Your Moment in the Sun: Post PIP EPA sticker guesses

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by SageBrush, Sep 26, 2011.

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  1. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    MPG(e) is useless for any physical calculation because it includes a politcal fudge factor for non-petrol use. This limits actual blended car use comparos to cars that have the same petrol/electric ratios -- that is, NONE.

    The only way I can see to make sense of the numbers without the fudge is this way:

    1. Look at the gallons and kwh used in the blended 100 mile numbers;
    2. Multiply the gallons used by the CS mpg to get miles of the 100 miles driven on petrol.
    3. Subtract (2) from 100 -- this is the miles driven on electric
    4. Divide kwh used in the 100 miles by (3) -- this gives EV efficiency.

    ICE efficiency is the CS MPG.

    * We do have to be sure that the kwh given in (1) is from the wall in one wishes to compare to cars that finish the CD testing in non-blended mode. If it is only energy from the battery, then multiply the kwh by about 1.25
     
    #21 SageBrush, Jan 3, 2012
  2. Allannde

    Allannde Just a Senior

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    SageBrush

    Thank you for your response. I suspected as much.

    It looks to me like you are saying to calculate your gas milage on the miles using gasoline and calculate your electric efficiency on the miles driven under electric power. Makes sense.

    Allan
     
    #22 Allannde, Jan 3, 2012
  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I'm certain of ONE thing - aint no way the PiP will beat the Volt EPA:

    [​IMG]

    ;)
     
    #23 hill, Jan 4, 2012
  4. iRun26.2

    iRun26.2 New Member

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    Good thing the PiP's gas-only mode blows the Volt away! :)
     
    #24 iRun26.2, Jan 4, 2012
  5. evfinder

    evfinder Member

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    230 mpge was pure GM fantasy, the actual number for the Volt (the one on the epa sticker) is 93mpge and the gas only number if 31mpge. I suspect that the Prius will come in a bit lower than the volt number but not by much.
     
    #25 evfinder, Jan 5, 2012
  6. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    The gas mileage can be read directly from the CS testing (in the case of the PiP, 49 MPG.) Right about how to ferret out the EV efficiency.
     
    #26 SageBrush, Jan 5, 2012
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Where does that come from? Its combined fuel economy is 37mpg.
     
    #27 Trollbait, Jan 5, 2012
  8. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    I'm pretty sure they meant to say that the MPGE number for the Volt is 93, and the running on gas-only number is 37 MPG.
     
    #28 devprius, Jan 5, 2012
  9. evfinder

    evfinder Member

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    Fat fingers:( it should have read 37mpg as you said
     
    #29 evfinder, Jan 6, 2012
  10. evnow

    evnow Active Member

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    No. It was calculated using an earlier formula. Infact, EPA's new formula might even have been the result of the furor that the 230 mpg created.
     
    #30 evnow, Jan 9, 2012
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  11. gwmort

    gwmort Active Member

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    It can't be long til they release the sticker right?

    I mean they can't make any retail deliveries without it.
     
    #31 gwmort, Jan 11, 2012
  12. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    What political fudge factor for non-petrol use?

    MPG(e) is based on converting the sources of energy to an equivalent energy space (BTU) then converting them Gallons of Gas Equivalent using its BTU factor. The current MPG(e) is NOT the earlier EPA model that had a political factor (dividing by .15) to encourage non-petrol use. The earlier model is what lead to silly numbers like the Volt 230mpg.. As evnow suggested, after that media fiasco it became that clear the EPA needed to revise the model to remove the political rescaling.

    The only "fudging" is what is the energy of a gallon of Gas.. (depends on the blending ranging from 116,500 BTU to 114,00 BTU. EPA has one number, CARB another (because of the gas blend in CA).

    Formulas for computing MPGE it can be found here:
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equivalent]Miles per gallon gasoline equivalent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Basically one uses the fact that 1kWh = 3,412 BTU. If one uses 1 gallon of gas = 116,090 then 1 gallon of gas = 34.02 kWh. If 1 gallon of gas is 115,000 BTU (what EPA uses), 1 gallon = 32.06kWh.

    For mixed usage compute MPGe as
    [​IMG]

    Note MPGe is pump/wall to miles, and does not include wells-to-pump or source of electricity, both of which vary widely.
     
    #32 drinnovation, Jan 11, 2012
  13. gwmort

    gwmort Active Member

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    Still no stickers? Really?
     
    #33 gwmort, Feb 27, 2012
  14. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    The numbers have already been posted to Toyota's website: 95mpge,
    51 city, 49 highway, 50 combined. That's what will appear on the sticker.
     
    #34 devprius, Feb 27, 2012
  15. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    The sample label below shows 1 gallon/100 mile and 17 kWh/100mile. We are waiting for similar breakdown of gas and electricity consumption for Prius PHV.

    [​IMG]
     
    #35 usbseawolf2000, Feb 27, 2012
  16. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    Ah, that makes more sense.

    I'm sure someone will post a picture once they pickup their cars.
     
    #36 devprius, Feb 27, 2012
  17. iRun26.2

    iRun26.2 New Member

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    Now I am really confused. Is this for the PiP??
     
    #37 iRun26.2, Feb 27, 2012
  18. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

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    No, it is a mock-up of the sticker format for a PHEV that does not complete the tests on electric only (e.g., PHV).
     
    #38 ksstathead, Feb 27, 2012
  19. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    It is a sample label showing the various elements to appear on Blended PHEV label. The numbers are only sample. We have to wait...
     
    #39 giora, Feb 27, 2012
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  20. iRun26.2

    iRun26.2 New Member

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    But don't we know some things now (like 50MPG not 41MPG)?
     
    #40 iRun26.2, Feb 27, 2012
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