Running E85

Just because it appears to have not developed leaks now doesn't mean it won't in the future due to your err... experimentation, and present a possible danger to the future owner.

Although this is not related to E85 or ethanol, my former 350Z had a recall for rubber fuel hoses.

My car never leaked fuel before I had the recall performed, nor did the vast majority of Zs. But, Nissan did receive reports of this problem in mid-05, prompting an investigation and recall. The recalls spanned numerous models produced from 01 to 05, not just the 03-04 Z.

If you see the attached PDF of the procedure, the repair is very labor intensive and it seems there are many places where a mistake could be made. Some folks on my350z.com (stupidly, IMHO) refused to have the recall work done and at least one of them, sure enough eventually had fuel leak from his Z.

More documents on the recall at Recalls Documents | Safercar.gov | NHTSA. The defect acknowledgement mentions that the fuel filler hose may crack from exposure to ozone and another mentions that this was due to an inappropriate production quality control process.

The first link I provided has a <4 min video. That's all you need to see there.

As a side note, at the unveiling of the 3rd gen (2010+) Prius in Detroit in January 09 (big thank you to Toyota!), someone asked the chief engineer, Otsuka-san, whether the new (at the time) Prius was E85 compatible. I was present when that someone asked. He understood the question and I believe repeated back/clarified E85 == 85% ethanol. The answer was no.

 

Googling Prius E85 shows other people have tried. Someone else in Minnesota did a more complete study (see here), and somebody else claims they ran 30K miles on it (see here). There's also 2 other PriusChat threads that I found:
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-2010-prius-main-forum/93893-e85-experiences-so-far-france.html
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-modifications/98721-e85-fuel.html

But, a big concern with E85 seems to be long-term corrosion of the fuel system (tank, pump, fuel rails, valves, oxygen sensor, etc.). Vehicles designed to run on E85 have made all these components tolerant of the corrosive effects of Ethanol. I would not want to run E85 in my Prius, even if it appears to work at first, because I wouldn't want to risk a lot of expensive repairs due to this corrosion.

 

Hey, sorry Mike, you are smarter than we thought!

Enjoy your new Prius when you get it!

 

Check this,

 

We all know an organization called "American Coalition for Ethanol" wouldn't be biased.

I was a little suspicious when they spent so much time on parts that one wouldn't expect E85 to cause problems with and so little time on parts that E85 might cause problems with.

Then there was the caveat when the female narrator said they aren't recommending that people run E85 in vehicles that weren't built to use E85. That wasn't her exact wording, but I believe I got the message right.

Then the was the quick gloss over by one of the male narrators that said something to the effect of there being some areas of concern about the fuel delivery system. That would be the place to expect problems to show up. The fact that of all the plastic and rubber parts in the fuel system they only showed the pump and one fuel line is suspicious.

 

where u get the rental from? and how much?

 

It has answered one query for me - The Prius can run on E85 in an emergency situation as a one off. Ideal if there's no alternative.

I'm assuming one off use won't cause long term damage and unless you're filling from totally empty, there'll always be some normal petrol to mix it with.

 

Just wondered what the long term effects would be. Just thinking whether to save some gas now or lengthen the car's longivity by using recommended fuel.

 

One of my early wishes was that Toyota had made the Prius E85 friendly, it would be wise to use even less petroleum. Sadly, I may have been too frugal to ever use it much as the only station near here with E85 does not price it more than 10% lower than E10.

 

Politics:
The oil companies control the govt. as they have most of the money the politicians need to get elected.

Some facts about ethyl alcohol in gasoline:
The good -
The alcohol absorbs any water in the fuel system and distributes it throughout so it "burns" with no real ill effects.
The alcohol helps keep much of the engine internals cleaner, including the intake tract (something the Prius needs).
The bad -
The alcohol increases the amount of water in the exhaust, which can cause corrosion problems there.
The alcohol changes the vapour pressure, which can cause increased pressure in the fuel tank. This also has a good side however, as in very cold temperatures it's easier to ignite in the engine.

Note that "gasoline" is a mixture of several molecules, the most dominant being naptha ("white gas"). So adding ethyl alcohol isn't "diluting pure gasoline" as some claim. It's just changing the existing mixture. Something every oil company does anyway, often differently (additives).

All alcohols attack parts of the fuel system to some extent. Methyl alcohol is very aggessive at removing or attacking parts of rubber seals, so isn't usually used as fuel line antifreeze anymore. It also produces toxic exhaust when burned (though some of us actually -like- the smell ). Isopropyl alcohol is less aggressive and is currently the preferred fuel line antifreeze. Ethyl alcohol is the least aggressive of the three and because it's now in most automotive fuel gas line antifreeze isn't really necessary. Unless you were the victim of a "bad tank of gas" with lots of water etc. in it. Best recourse with this is to drain the tank, filter the fuel and put it back in. If you can. Extra isopropyl alcohol -can- absorb the excess water in the fuel but the water is usually the least of your worries. There is "rust dust" in there too! It will destroy injectors and fuel pumps. BTW, in most places you can't buy "pure" ethyl alcohol. People would drink it so it isn't allowed to be sold. Also, you can distill ethyl alcohol to about 95% (the rest being water). To get it to about 99% they have to add a toxic alcohol to absorb the water then boil that combination off (extra distillation run). -Some- of the toxic alcohol remains, making the 99% alcohol not safe for drinking. Oh, and yes, even the 95% ethyl alcohol is toxic, it's just that we can tolerate it in moderate amounts. But not at that concentration.

So, the question remains, how come some people can burn E85 with no real problems. Well, -any- alcohol in the fuel causes damage. It builds up over time. IF something else happens to the car before that damage manifests itself you will never experience the problems it causes. At 15% (E15) that "other cause of destruction" will be inevitable. At higher concentrations (up to 85% or E85) all bets are off!

"Are you feeling lucky today punk!"

 

There is a lot of good read on BITOG about people safely using E85 or E85/E10 mix in non-FFVs for many years. Some people did investigate and discovered that FFVs used the same parts as the non-FFVs and the only difference is ECU software and a yellow gas cap.

My take is if synthetic polymer (no rubber is used these days) can withstand 10% ethanol, it will withstand E85 as well. The only real danger is E85 is very hygroscopic and can get contaminated with water and it creates lots of acids and chemical engine wear on cold starts.

I would only use it on long hwy trips and only if much cheaper than gasoline. However, no E85 in my area.

 

I dont know, I have been using E10 for 30 years(since it was called Gasohol , have yet to have a fuel problem because of it.
Hope to see the evil stuff tear up something, anything, before another 20 years passes and I no longer care LOL.;-)

 

Just filled up my tank today. Fuel cap states NO E15-E85.