New Prius v Sales Already Clobbered Volt

Those are how the power sources are arranged. I don't have access to the standard but I don't think power-split (Series-Parallel) hybrid is in there yet.

The abbreviation EREV suggests it is an electric vehicle but the proposed definition said it is a hybrid. REEV alternative just as bad.

 

The Volt is killing itself. It wasn't DOA but it is on life support. Most (maybe all) of the Volt's fixed costs were incurred by the "old GM." It filed bankruptcy and wiped out all of its stockholder's equity. I suspect that intangible assets like Volt development costs were valued at $0 as part of that process, just as the capital sunk into Pontiac, Oldsmobile and "goodwill" were. The "new GM," being leaner and meaner (and fresh out of bankruptcy), can't afford to make such mistakes.

The title of this thread is a comparison of Prius v sales to Volt sales. I'm just addressing that subject. There may be some Volt or Leaf buyers who would never consider a Prius but, for the most part, all three companies are competing for the same finite number of consumer dollars. Sales numbers show that Prius liftback, Prius v and other Prii are garnering most of those dollars and that Prius v sales do, in fact, clobber Volt sales. If this persists, then the Volt may not survive.

 

I think the Volt will get a sales boost this year. General Electric will buy 12,000 Volts.

In Largest Single Commitment, GE to Buy 25,000 Electric Vehicles | GE Reports

 

The old gm's mistake was not to invest in fuel efficient technology, building over capacity and costs in truck and suvs. It has been widely acknowledged that killing the the ev1, instead of developing it was both a marketing and technology mistake that helped push GM down this path. Why would they repeat this mistake, and only look at this years profits?

Yes, my point in the thread is how idiotic the comparison is. If the prius c and prius phv is a disaster, and all prius sales move into the prius v, then this idea will gain traction. It will be a repeat of the rise of the SUV. IMHO cafe standards and gas prices will push the fleet to actually use less gasoline, and new technologies need to be developed. 3% hybrid market that just sits there is not good for any of us. The prius is the big fish in an extremely small pond. We need innovation to make the pond bigger.

 

Where is Volt v, Volt c or Volt Liftback (no-plug) to compare with?

HSD has proven to scale very well. We have 1.5L (99hp) subcompact Prius c all the way to 5.0L V8 (438hp) Lexus LS600h. The amazing part is maintaining SULEV emission in the entire line of the hybrids.

Where is Voltec going? Downsize? Upsize? or both? What happened to Volt MPV? Will Volt remain as compact and with cost reduction?

Perhaps, Volt will be discontinued and the halo moved to Cadillac ELR.

 

Really? I thought that outrageously high (a) labor rates, (b) employee benefits, and (c) unemployment expenses, were what drove GM into bankruptcy.

BTW: I'm not advocating that GM end Volt production. I actually like the Volt. I'm suggesting that, if market acceptance (sales) doesn't improve, the Volt will kill itself.

Depends on how you look at it. If you're comparing the Volt and the F150, yes it is an idiotic comparison because they don't compete for the same dollars. If you are comparing practical commuter cars that are, first and foremost, known for great fuel economy, then I do think it is a valid comparison.

 

Well that is some of the anti-union mythology. Fully allocated labor per car was not enough to cause that deep bleeding. They spent too much money on the wrong cars. Its expensive having all those non-producing factories and dealers. The union costs were high though, and it meant that they could not build a car like the sonic profitably. The post bankruptcy gm may be able to actually compete on subcompacts.

You need to give a car like the volt time, at least 5 years. GM needs to persue phev tech even if it is in a different car than the volt.

I think from sales so far the prius v primarily competes with the prius. people go into the dealership and pick that for their model. It would help if toyota would actually break out sales so we can see how much prius liftback sales are declining. Its hard to really tell what the sales would be without the prius v though.

The volt is targeted to initial adopters, not people that want a prius, but want to carry more stuff. You could compare prius v sales versus crossovers and small suvs to see if it is competing well. If they are moving people from cuvs its one thing, if they are just shifting hybrid sales, then what is the point. Really lets not buy into the marketing bs these car companies engage in.

 

I doubt you can find three people who were considering a Volt and bought a Prius v instead. The cars are too different in size.

The reason this comparo is useful is because it says that people can be moved to higher fuel economy hybrid alternatives **to the regular cars they were considering** if the price is right, etc.

The Volt does not have a chance in hell of taking a sale from another sub-compact.

 

So the question for the Prius V is how many subrau, MX5, wagons or small CUV's, SUVs or minivans it converted to higher milage, not its sales vs the Volt or any compact/mid-size sedan. My gosh the V only sold 9K in 5 months.. , the Chevy Equniox sold 2x more that december alone. The Nissan rouge (which I've never heard of) sold more in december. The prius V must be a flop.. (Okay I'm kidding.. its bad logic just wanted to point the illogic that others here have used.)


I probably agree the volt won'd steal a sale of an econbox sub-compact, but not it will if you include small "upsscale" cars like BMW/MB/Audi/VW/Lexus/Buick etc. No one looking for a cheap beater will meaningful cross shop a Volt. Those looking at upscale small and midsize cars will. And that is where the Volt sales are taking from.. The trade-ins for the Volt were Prius (7%), then BMW, Audi, Jetta.. (6%).

 

LOL. I agree with everything you said.

The 3 Prius v drivers I've met in "meat space" went from a Buick LeSabre (old guy), a BMW 3 series ("flarover" here on PC) and a Highlander (2 preteens). And there's us, who replaced a 2009 Prius Touring (needed room for 4 adults and 4 sets of clubs).

 

Unfortunately it's hard to know. The v went on sale, with some pent-up demand, and at the same time you had supply recovery, price readjustment and then great deals on 2011 Prius liftbacks. Gas prices dropped steadily at the end of the year. Then there's the 2012 coming with higher prices but better amenities. Too many variables.

Reports are the v sales are primarily to new customers but that the v has also drawn people who weren't considering the liftback but on comparing the two realize the Prius liftback meets their needs (which many of us know well).

 

Well so far the figures seem to bear that out, but it is early. Prius v seems much more heavily advertised than prius. Market share of prius v + prius have gone down. We do not know how much they would have gone down if the prius v was not introduced and those advertising dollars spent on the prius. I'm sure there are many at toyota marketing looking at this. It may be fine for them, as there is a higher ASP and likely margin on the prius v. Toyota has chosen to not break out prius v from prius in monthly sales. If they are getting a large number of SUV/CUV traded in for prius v's I would expect a press release. Certainly toyota seems instead to want to compare the prius v sales to volts, which I find ridiculous.

Yes to both.

BMW is not trying to tell us wagon sales are making cars more efficient. If they were I would like a break out. Definitely the prius c really is not a simple variant at all but on a different platform, and I expect those to be broken out.

If the goal is to use less gas, and people are simply shifting to more expensive bigger hybrids, that is a bad thing IMHO. It is not bad for Toyota as they make a bigger profit, but it is bad for america. IF on the other hand people are moving to more efficient cars that is a good thing. I think the prius c will be a good seller. Why do people get my opinions so wrong. IF lift-back sales increase, and Prius v sales get market share from CUVs and SUVs thats a good thing. With higher fuel prices I expect prius sales to increase if february, from what I consider disappointing sales in january. THis increase would happen with or without the prius wagon.

 

That wasn't the plan.

All throughout the development, it was going to be a "game changer" that would leap-frog the competition. Then upon rollout, the plan was altered.

We've been hit with downplay ever since.

Key questions those supporting Volt haven't wanted to address...
.

 

I really have not seen any material that said the volt was meant to over take prius sales or compete with a station wagon by 2012. If gm has said something like that, it is clearly wrong. Just as Toyota saying it is wrong today. I don't know how you can perceive that I have said anything that would lead to the conclusion that the gen I volt will have huge sales. The reorg team also indicated moderate levels for the volt.

From Forbes and businessweek articles talking about the volt and leaf being a game changers, they were referring to changing the game from oil only to oil and electricity to power the fleet. I hope the prius phv joins these and actually changes the game.

 

It has been a game-changer. Everyone but Chrysler is doing EV or PHEV.. Do you think they would be if GM had not? Tesla did not scare people into it. (Great car, but not yet much of a threat).

I don't think the plan changed much on rollout. It was 10K projected back in 2008, and they were still saying 10K last fall. They did not hit it but they did not back down on rollout either. The events with the fire in the fall and the political press has not helped them. There is no value now in them repeating old goals, or making up new numbers for this year. Either they will make the old number or they will not but the media would only roast them for a new lower number (and a new higher number would probably be unrealistic). Maybe they are listening to John, and learning to cut back a bit on over-promising.

Higher pricing for initial adopters is not uncommon. They said the price would drop with volume and so we'll see how they price 2013s. Problem with price announcements is as soon as they happen current inventory is effectively cut. Just like the HOV version caused significant price drops in Cali.. if they announced now the 2013s would be 5K cheaper.. who would be buying the 2012's? Predicting how much they drop the price is beyond me, and probably beyond anyone on this forum..

Hmm how many years was the prius on the market before there was multiple variations? I'll bet there will be 3 variations of Voltec platforms in fewer years than it took the Prius.

And the answers are first its going upstream (upsize) for the
ELR (e.g. First Look: 2014 Cadillac ELR)

While the EV Sonic (MY13) may build on experience it won't be EREV so its at best a 2nd cousin. Last I heard the Plugin Curize was going to be closer to a 2-mode hybrid than the Voltec but most of that is speculation. I expect its a closer cousin but still not a sibling.

MPV5, and others.. maybe its good for them to figure out the demand and costs before they announce other segments or lower cost items. Announcing the Volt was a big deal, announcing firm plans on the MPV5 now would likely cause negative press (planning on this new one before the Volt is proven.) You guys would be second in line, after Faux, to be bashing them for it! Today's announcement that its too close to a small crossover (equniox) suggets it will never happen.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/class...t-cruze-station-wago-20120227,0,4384467.story
Unless sales of the volt really take off, or the equinox starts loosing share, they won't see it as not cannibalizing on an existing product that is doing well.

(P.s. I'm not a GM fan or really into defending them. They make lots of wierd marketing decisions. Good engineers, weird management. )

 

GM can not follow 10 year plan with Volt today... they could have in 1998... but they didnt.
Game is changed.

 

uh, how the story changes.

Lets see.... January 2011:

Chevrolet Volt Production Ramps Up - Nationwide Sales Expected by Year End

December 2011: oopsie doopsie

Volt Changes: New Battery, New Sales Target - TheStreet


hows that not funny, hilarious and deception of investors? But hey... they had no goals!!! lol.

What about 2012?

meaning that in January 2011, GM had a plan to build 120,000 Volts in 2012.

Whats the plan right now? 20k? lol.

 

wolf you appear to be truely trolling me now. Do you honestly think that GM actually had a plan to build and sell 120K volts in 2012? Ofcourse not, they didn't even have parts supply. Your own links don't support that, nor does anything official from gm :focus:

Do you really think the prius v competes with the volt which is the topic of the thread? It is an insane point of comparison.

 

Easy to say now. What about 2 years ago, when the hype was blinding all those with unrealistic expectations?
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