Running E85

If your using an E85 conversion kit intended for Prius well maybe it's not to bad.

From EPA: Alternative Fuels and Advanced Vehicles Data Center: Ethanol Flexible Fuel Vehicle Conversions
"EPA testing procedures for FFV conversions ensure that the converted vehicle meets emissions standards and all vehicle components and materials will be compatible with E85 for as long as the vehicle remains on the road."

I take this to mean E85 should not be the cause of your vehicle being "off the road".

I can find no EPA approval for a E85 kit for any model Toyota/Lexus.

 

I wonder if WE0H has bothered to read his rental contract. I really wonder where people get the idea it's OK to abuse a rental car and walk away from any resulting damage. Some things like racing etc. are not covered, even by insurance, and so for some other types of abuse.

A short search turns up this Hertz contract (it's from Australia, but only because this is what I could find, others are probably similar). https://images.hertz.com/pdfs/Hertz_Terms_and_Conditions_2010.pdf
Section 5 (c) (vii) says "You will be fully responsible and liable for Damages under clause 6 where the Vehicle is used: under any circumstances where the Vehicle is refuelled with fuel other than which is recommended by the Vehicle manufacturer"

Maybe he thinks he can use E85 and walk away if the car is damaged. Maybe so if the rental co. doesn't figure out why, but do you really want to take this chance?

 

And you DON'T want to advertise the fact to the world on a well known Prius forum either!

If I worked for hertz (or similar) the first thing I'll be doing on Monday is checking the long term hire list and searching the net on how to find out if E85 has been used.

 

It seems to me that if this self-described "soon to be Prius owner" really wants to use E85, or not use oil from the middle east, he should buy a car that's designed to run on E85, or buy a Leaf, Volt, PIP or other car that can run on electricity (which mostly is not produced from oil). Considering the possible cost of repairs, either to the rental car, or his own car (in this case the warranty would not cover it either), I don't see how this is worth the risk.

 

...remind me not to question a Minnesotan the next time.
Wikipedia E85 article indicates the only way to determine E85 MPG debit is really personal tests on your car, and newer cars tend not to lose as much MPG on E85. Guess we need Consumer Reports to do some testing. Meanwhile we have WE0H.

PS- apparently Minnesota is a pro-ethanol state

 

Funny. So GM adds an extra computer/fuel sensor, special fuel lines, special injectors, etc. etc. for no apparent reason to get "flexfuel" capability? Amazing!

I'm glad you dudes can't put fuel in -my- car!

 

One other comment on this experiment. I read here that E85 is only E70 in winter, to improve cold starting.

 

OP should view Alternative Fuels and Advanced Vehicles Data Center: MotorWeek Explores Differences in Conventional and E85-Capable Vehicles.

Ditto.

Yep. OP doesn't seem to car much about the potential long term effects to various parts (e.g. hoses and seals) since he doesn't own the car. Sucks to be the poor owner if he develops fuel leaks...

If Toyota thought it were ok, they'd have labeled it as a E85/flex-fuel vehicle and gotten a MASSIVE boost on their import passenger car CAFE numbers, due to the E85 incentive/scam. (Toyota has a few FFVs, just none of them are cars per http://www.e85fuel.com/flexible-fuel-vehicles/.)

I know I'd never want to buy a Prius that was rented out in MN. But then again, I'm in CA, if I ever were to buy a used Prius, it'd have to be one owned and registered in CA or other CARB states...

 

Mike,

I drove in 45MPH crosswinds a couple days ago, no problem car was rock stable. This is with suspension mods (rear sway bar and strut tower brace/lower brace) and adjusted tire pressure (42 front/38 rear). Before that it was a nerve wracking in 20MPH winds.

Good luck on your purchase, and stay away from E85

 

Now he's going to say we are so negative, he's misunderstood, etc.

The Prius IS NOT E85 capable, from the manufacturer. I trust their engineers MUCH more than the "fly by night" guys posting on the internet who seem to think they are better engineers.
Oh, and just because -you- couldn't detect any damage doesn't mean there wasn't any!

But it will be your car so go ahead and destroy it over time.

 

Yeah, I'd be leery of running E-85 in my Prius too. BMW several years back had a problem where the V-12 engines in the 7-series would experience erosion and catastrophic engine failure within about the 50-100k mile range because the particular alloys they used in the engine weren't compatible with the ethanol content in U.S. market gasoline in some areas.

This was long before the E-85 thing, back when ethanol content was in the 5-15% range but not widely used yet. 5% ethanol wouldn't generally cause problems within the warranty period, but if you were unlucky enough to own a 750L/iL in one of the areas that made heavy use of 10-15% you'd be buying a $20,000+ engine every few years. The engine components had to be completely redesigned to be compatible with 15% ethanol.

 

Toyota has not produced an E85 capable Prius for the US market. While the ICE will seem to run fine, the ancillary components of the fuel system, and possibly some internal engine parts are not designed for the high alcohol content in fuel and corrosion will set in with continued use. From what I understand when GM and Ford started equipping many of their cars to be "flex fuel", the cost to make them compatible was less than a couple hundred dollars.

 

If it were me, and I wanted to experiment (and I am an experimentalist), I would run E50. Because the engine is Atkinson and has a much higher compression ratio, there is the potential that the higher octane (about 91) of E50 will allow the engine to run more efficiently with significantly advanced timing to partly offset the MPG loss due to the lower energy content. I know others that run E50 in Toyota equipment, for various reasons.

Here are the issues:

1. If the ethanol concentration is too high, you will get P0171 for lean burn. Track your LT fuel trim carefully.
2. The E50 blend will be higher octane. There may be starting issues in cold weather.
3. E50 is much more corrosive and conductive than E10. There may be long term consequences to components. But don't forget that everything has been designed to run well on E10.

Fortunately, a Prius motor is not $20,000. More like $1500 installed.