Problems plaguing Tesla Roadster

If only Tesla would have fitted an Optima Yellowtop 12V for auxiliary power, this sort of thing would never happen.


Come on people, you know I'm kidding.

Automotive is an extremely challenging engineering environment. It is impossible to predict every stupid thing that car owners will do.

 

For the most part, the Roadster is a, "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" extreme specialty car, which I suspect isn't even parked in the short term lot at the airport, let alone in long term for weeks at a time.

 

Keiichi, I do think the article is mainly a sensationalist slam against EVs. Bricking should not be a concern if the car is maintained, but someone should not buy one if they are not willing to put up with the limitations. This includes having a place to keep it plugged in, and the responsibility to have it toughly inspected after a crash. With the lack of infrastructure cars like the leaf, imev, focus are really only for short runs, and this length depends on the weather. A tesla can gulp through much longer runs with its larger pack, but owners need to keep a safety margin.

These limitations are much less severe for phevs, that keep a safety margin and can run and recharge to a safe level on gasoline. The exxon mobil study analyst thought this would be the path to electrification for many cars. There are charging networks in various parts of the country and these will be pure ev friendly first. With all the incentives, infrastructure, and mild climate southern california and the bay area will be the beta site for the pure ev.

 

Some thoughts:

Tesla is very clear on the fact that the car is intended to be plugged in at all times when not being driven. Obviously, you cannot plug in everywhere, but you don't drive somewhere that's too far to make it home again if you are not certain of being able to recharge. The OP's scenario of driving to 50% SoC and then being unable to charge is a very foolish one because, as he also pointed out, EV infrastructure is limited at this time (it's an infant industry) and so you just don't do that; AND note that the Roadster can be plugged into a 120 v. 15 a. circuit with the FREE included charging cable. Granted, it will take a LONG time to recharge at 120 v., but we're talking about an emergency situation.

The OP says that because the Tesla can "brick," he would not buy a Leaf. Say what??? This is an issue with no other EV.

The car cannot be towed if the car is "bricked." But it can always be flat-bedded, and since the consequences of bricking your Roadster are so severe, the fact that it then must be flat-bedded rather than towed is irrelevant.

Turning on GPS without the owner's knowledge: There's actually an option on the Settings screen to turn remote monitoring on or off. So they cannot "see" your car without your consent. I have that turned ON. I want them to be able to detect any problems that may arise. It's not just GPS. It's complete diagnostics. I like the feature. But you can turn it off.

Is this news disturbing? No. I bought this car to drive, not to park. When I travel I would not leave a $100K car in an airport parking lot. I drive the Prius or I take a cab when I go to the airport. I care for the battery pack for the simple reason that it will last longer, and one benefit of basic good-sense care is that it won't become "bricked."

Is this article a revelation? No. Tesla warns of this when you buy the car. Every Roadster owner that didn't stick his fingers in his ears and shout "La la la la la" while getting the run-down of the car already knew about this: Let the battery go dead and you're in deep do-do. It's been known to every Roadster owner and every well-informed Tesla enthusiast since the first Roadsters were sold. The author reports it as though he's "discovered" something, but Tesla has been telling owners and interested people since the beginning.

To answer Evan's point about collectors, I cannot imagine buying this car and not driving it, but I suppose some people might have bought it thinking it would increase in value once the limited production run of 2,500 cars was built and sold. But I'd expect such people to follow the instructions and put the car in Storage mode (plugged in, the battery is kept at a proper level for storage). Some folks certainly will have miscalculated their finances, or had a financial disaster, or just are irresponsible, and found themselves unable to keep the car, so they are selling it. And I'll bet some come on the market when the owners trade in the Roadster for the less fun but more practical Model S. When buying a used gas car, you have to be concerned about the condition of the ICE; when buying a used EV you have to be concerned about the condition of the pack. Personally, I don't buy used cars. But these are considerations when you do.

The EV industry is in its infancy. The range of most EVs is rather limited and charging infrastructure is non-existant in many places. The OP probably should not buy one because he'd give himself ulcers worrying about charging opportunities. But many people are capable of thinking ahead and planning, and driving their EV only as far as it can reliably go. With a 245-mile range, I'd never plan a trip longer than 100 miles from home because I don't want to worry about finding a charging location. That gives me a 45-mile buffer on the round trip. In actual practice, my longest drive was 110 miles. I went for a fun ride when the car was new, drove until I got tired, and then turned around.

The OP's scenario of driving beyond your safe turn-around point and then finding no place to plug in (even 120 volts!) would require extreme carelessness in planning your trip. You don't go that far unless you KNOW you'll be able to recharge, and then if something totally unexpected happens, yes it's a disaster, but it's not a "bricked car," it's being stranded while your car charges over the course of 48 hours or so from a 120-volt outlet.

The OP's complaint really just comes down to this (and it's true): You can't drive as far in an EV as in a gas car without the inconvenience of recharging, and recharging opportunities at this time are limited. If you fail to plan and you drive too far, you can be stranded. With a gas car you can drive farther before being stranded, and gas stations are more plentiful now than charging stations.

OTOH, the future of gas is uncertain, both as regards price and availability, and driving electric is FUN. Especially in a high-performance electric sports car like the Roadster. It's worth the care that you have to give it.

And that's my take on this whole non-issue.

 

There is no problem plaguing Tesla! The news media is misinformed and, what else is new?

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1065808_hurricane-irene-recap-2-electric-cars-no-power-no-problem

 

I don't think this is actually true today. I was motivated by a whole bunch of issues related to gasoline, none of which was cost, and by the technological superiority of electric. Anyone who is motivated by saving money will buy a used car instead.

An EV can be a money-saving choice only under limited circumstances: If you need to get a new car, and the new car need only be driven within its range. But I think people buying EVs today are either motivated by the superior technology, or by the multitude of problems around petroleum, or both.

As for diesel, it's no solution at all unless it's biodiesel. And even biodiesel has serious implications for the cost of food unless it's post-consumer bio (e.g. used fry oil).

As far as the inconvenience resulting from the infant state of charging infrastructure, you are correct. It's early in the game and EVs are most convenient if you can get by always charging at home. I still need my Prius. My EVs have allowed me to greatly reduce my use of gas, and they've been fun to drive. But if I could not afford to keep a gas car, I could not have switched to just an EV. An EV today works best if it's not the only car in the family.

Tesla has indeed had a lot of problems. So far they have overcome them. Note that 90% of start-up companies fail, which is to say they have problems they are unable to overcome. Tesla was started by a bunch of guys putting their own money into it. Elon Musk put his last million into the company at one time and was essentially broke, and it was touch-and-go for the company for a while. Early Roadster designs had a two-speed transaxle, and their inability to engineer or purchase a transaxle capable of handling the torque of the motor delayed the whole project for a year. Some early reservation-holders got hit with a price rise and were very angry, seeing it as a breach of faith. Tesla's history has been a long list of problems. But they have overcome them and are now poised to introduce their second car model.

Their future is by no means assured. Bigger companies have gotten into the act and Tesla will face severe competition. Apparently Tesla was the reason Nissan built the Leaf, and by the time Tesla is ready to introduce a family-priced EV the Leaf will be in its second or third iteration and will have established market share in the price class. BMW may end up competing in the Model S price class. Maybe Toyota will push the range of the PiP, and some people will see the Volt as an acceptable compromise.

No doubt Tesla has a lot of difficulties ahead. But they've shown themselves to be adaptable and innovative, and so far they've managed to come up with capital when needed.

Lots of problems. But the battery issue in the article is a non-issue. It just means that it's possible to ruin the battery, as it's possible to ruin an ICE, and that information has been available since the beginning.

I agree with Evan that it would be nice to have the car email you. But if you are using it regularly, you are going to see the state of the battery, and if you plan sensibly you are not going to run out. And if you turn remote diagnostics on, I think it likely that Tesla would spot an impending battery problem and phone you.

 

there is no main contactor? i thats the case then it normal for it to drain that fast.
dont now wy they did this
you could have a main contactor and a smal 12 volt battery or maybe just a really small dc-dc converter with low voltage shutoff.

 

VERY well said Daniel!!

To the OP, the title of your thread and OP is so out of proportion. As said by others, this is not a problem "Plaguing" Tesla. It has happened 4-5 times in very limited circumstances and all due to owner inatentiveness. Out of 2500 sold over 4-5 years, that isn't exactly a 'plague'.

The range issue, is a completely different issue and is a valid one. If you regularily need to drive the maximum range, or more of an EV, it isn't the car for you. There are plenty of others who the limited range will work for. And improvements in both range and quick-speed charging will continue year by year.

 

Thanks for posting that, Evan. I only go over to teslamotorsclub.com when I have specific questions. Just to be on the safe side I am going to double-check to make sure that turning remote diagnostics ON is what is referred to in your quote, or if I need to make that request separately.

The Tesla Roadster maintains the battery temperature within certain limits, depending on mode selected. (Higher temperature for greater current in Performance mode; lower temperature in Range mode to reduce energy needed for cooling while driving; a mid-range in Standard mode.) This requires energy. So when you shut off the car you'll hear the cooling system continuing to operate, and when parked the car uses energy.

This is part of the design of the car to maximize performance and battery life. But it also means that the car needs to be plugged in. Anybody who does their research before buying the car, or who asks Tesla, will be told this. It means that if you cannot keep your car plugged in, then this is not the car for you. And even then, it won't damage the car if it's not always plugged in; it takes a very long time before damage is done.

 

Very long time is a relative statement. One report I read was it can happen in under about two weeks of not being plugged in. That could be a parking lot as I take a vacation. Do you have more specific/read data (don't trust lots of what I read on EVs..)

 

In the above post, Even gives the break-down. Tesla says a full Roadster battery will drain in eleven weeks. Note that 10% SoC is extremely low. Yes, you can damage batteries (car batteries, phone batteries, computer batteries, etc.) by allowing them to drain completely. Why would anyone park an EV, unplugged, with only 10% charge, and leave it for two weeks?

That's just not something you do with an EV. Just as you don't drive an ICE car without oil or coolant.

The Roadster is made to be plugged in. The owner's manual says so in big bold print. The salesfolks and reps tell you over and over. There is no excuse for any Tesla owner to be ignorant of this. If you are not going to be able to plug it in, don't buy it; or if you are going on a trip and you won't be able to plug it in, take a different car.

Yes, it's a shortcoming. But having to change oil is a shortcoming of ICE cars, and having to drive around with several gallons of highly explosive gasoline is another.

If you can afford a Tesla, you can probably afford to take a cab to the airport. Besides, the Roadster doesn't have room for your luggage anyway.

 

From what I have seen of this issue it seems to present a bit of a problem for Tesla. They seem to be taking no responsibility for this and also seem to be going out of their way to smear the customer who had the problem. If this story hits the mainstream news cycle it will take a toll on all EV's - it will be guilt by association. If so I'd say it would be akin to the whole Toyota sudden acceleration mess (on a smaller scale)- a bit of truth, some misinformation and a lot of hot air.

From all that I have seen reported it is stated in a few places that the car should be plugged whenever possible, but does not state the catastrophic outcome if the battery fully discharges. With an issue this big they really needed to be very clear about the issue, and from all that I have seen they have not. My guess that having customers sign a notice saying that the car would be completely inoperable would have been very bad PR. Musk as usual decided to ignore the issue - there are lots of stories about his dealings back with paypal/x.com.

There have been a couple of analogies in earlier posts - to me this seems similar to a car manufacturer stating that the engine oil needs to be changed every 3,000 miles, but then neglecting to say that if you go past 3,200 miles the engine will blow and insurance and warranty will not cover the damage.

Let me ask a question - how many of you reading this have run out of gas in your Prius? When it happens you feel a bit silly and it can be a pain in the butt, but how would you feel if it bricked your car and it was going to cost about $10k to fix it (about the same % as the Tesla) - I know that I would be royally ticked off.

 

Maybe in the media it doesn't say, but the owner's manual is pretty clear about it.

As for the Prius, if you run out of gas and then drive until the battery goes dead, you can do very serious damage.

 

From an engineering stand point, the design should be idiot prove.
A disclaimer does not do it.