Prius Plug-in vs Prius c vs Leaf

evebill8,

I think you have a few years before you are in the market, I would say you will have a better idea on where the EV market is. the Prius C would be in the same class as what you have now, so if its proves to be tried and true, Im sure it will always be a good option.

 

So far used Leaf's seem to be selling for about $30,000... I have been looking trying to pick one up on the used market (there are quite a few of them). The cheapest I have seen is $27,000. Unfortunately these are ones it looks like never got the tax credit, and now are uneligible for the tax credit... So for the Leaf you would be better off buying new. You can get a Leaf SV on lease for about $22,000. It may be the route I take. I am kind of waiting for the Leaf market to cool down though as none of the dealers around here are willing to cut any slack.

My conundrum is if I wait till gas prices are low they will be wanting to off load them for a steal then, but then the Prius will be worth less money on trade as well. So my only advice to you if you want a Leaf is 1) buy new 2) lease so you get the full tax credit 3) shop around for a dealer you like. I am in no hurry myself, so I am not going to bite until I get the deal I am looking for.

 

if you have a 2011 prius by the time you need a new car this comparison will be irrelevant.

I have a 2007 prius (136,000 mi) and aren't even considering any of these three.

but for the sake of comparison id break it down this way

c: cheap and mileage is a huge disappointment
Prius plug-in:14 mile plug in range doesn't seem worth the cost
leaf - great choice now but i bet it will be obsolete soon

 

...one possibility is by say 2015 is plug-in may be standard on Prius hybrids, heresay however from this site

 

By "standard" do you mean common?

It certainly won't be the only choice for many, many years to come. There is definitely a market for no plug, especially since there are so many without an outlet available.

I see PHV as becoming an everyday sight in a few years. And considering the volume that would entail, that perspective would qualify as a standard... not the standard though.

I also see more than one choice of battery-pack capacity emerging over time.
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There are much better battery technologies on the horizon, including ones developed by Toyota (and for sale in 2014) that will have twice the energy density of lithium-ion. IMO, energy density has to improve about 5 times from present values to be truly competitive with gasoline and ICEs. I will wait for battery technology to improve before going all electric.

 

Toyota seemed to be saying the NS4, whatever it morphs into, will be released around that time and be plug-in only. It makes sense for a plug-in only car. They also have said that the prius liftback (HB, etc) will stick around as a hybrid in gen IV.

Toyota was very scarce with details on the NS4 other than it will be a PHEV.

 

I think progress is going to be slower than that but I hope you are right. I'll be happy to see a 40% increase in energy density by 2015 and that may be asking too much for batteries that will be used in "mainstream" cars sold by GM, Nissan, and Toyota at a reasonable price/density cost.

I'll be impressed if they can double energy densities by the end of the decade. It's not just about density though -- Tesla can put 250-300 miles of range in a car today. Double that to 500-600 and that's plenty enough even for long road trips with a single quick charge stop during lunch or dinner. The main challenge is price. A 300 mile Tesla pack is around $40,000 now. I'd be happy if that dropped 4-5 times and that seems entirely possible but probably not for another 10-15 years. Until then PHEVs can help fill the gap between local driving and longer-range trips.

 

Really? It seems Danny (the on-site reviewer) had an easy time reaching 60mpg, and he also reviewed the Gen III upon its arrival back in 2009, in which he achieved around 50. I know, that's just one sample...hopefully, consumer experiences will begin to filter in.

 

Not much to base on but seemed pretty efficient. Short test drive of Prius C II - going up Redhill Ewa bound then coming back up Redhill Honolulu bound then back to dealership. About 90% freeway - average speed 55. Maybe six miles - average mpg on trip meter display = 50 mpg.

Uphill, IIRC, was around 27 mpg - I was pushing some - had to keep up with traffic. Can't recall downhill mpg. Should have bought one right then - I left and when I went back a few hours later only two II's were left along with some I's. Ordered a Summer Rain but it won't be in for a couple more shipments - April.

 

^Thanks, a bit disappointing. But given that it was a short test drive (meaning you probably didn't give it much time to warm up?), I will try to remain hopeful. I have several long grades locally when heading to the nearby town (~17-mile trip, most of which is driven on a state highway with a maximum posted speed of 55 mph, the last 6 being on a 75-mph interstate highway).

 

yes really. 53 sucks for this small of a car.

I don't care if 60 is possible I feel a lot better trusting the EPA over a short test drive by Danny.

 

By all means buy the competing 53 mpg car.

 

I can't fault your logic, at this time, I think the c is the right choice for you for a 2nd car. Get a loaded one, enjoy it and maybe in four years an all electric option might be viable or a plug in cheaper.

 

The handsome BYD electric crossover from China that Warren Buffet has invested in is nearly here after a few delays. It should price out similarly to the hideous Leaf and get up to double the range.

When buying electric cars, much of the electricity generated comes from the dirtiest fossil fuels like coal which is by far the most damaging to the environment. If you offset it by generating your own electricity via solar panels then that might be just the thing.

The C gets much better mileage than the EPA says. With a bit of restraint of the lead foot you can get beyond 60 mpg without much effort at all. The C is quieter than the big Prius models. It handles and corners much better too. It isn't cramped in the rear and the hatch window isn't obscured by a spoiler. The looks take some getting used to as all Prius models do. If you want a great looking car buy anything else. If you want a car that delivers unbeatable efficiency and is a little easier on the eye then the C is number one. If you get the top three packages you'll get front seats that are more comfortable than any other Prius or Camry. If you are more of an environmentalist get the C. If you want to create more landfill materials buy the big less efficient ones.

 

Well said about the C and EPA's calculations.

 

If you look at his location you could see that he is from California. Most electric in California is produced from Natural gas which is a lot cleaner than coal. It’s too hard to tell exactly what power plant he receives electric from to determine if his home is cleaner than coal. But also have to look what time he charges it, because at night the draw on the grid is lowest and there is a abundance of electric on grid so they shut down the gas power plants because they take the least time to start back up, coal takes around 4 hours if I remember right and nuke takes 1month or more. So there is excess electric at night that just gets blown away in steam releases so imp sure him plugging in his car will not have an effect on the excess power he uses at night. When more people start to due this then it will be that way.

If I read this right, natural Gas is 380g CO2 per KWH produced. I know that the prius hybrid puts out CO2 at 178g/mile, I don’t know how many miles per kwh you get on a leaf but I thought it was 3.5-4.5 depending on speed.

Now if you look at coal its 900g co2 per KWH, but that is the national average and some states have better efficiencies than other.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iea.org%2Fco2highlights%2Fco2highlights.pdf&ei=4wyPT7PNFoXW0QHA_cGBDw&usg=AFQjCNG8LdZ3h28RUzZURfDTCbB_RDBK5A&sig2=1xTuez5ij-ao7XsrtPMNTg
if I’m wrong please correct me.


So this only is how much fuel that it burns, i dont know what it would be if you factored in all the CO2 from start to finish for gas but im sure it is higher than electricty production. Another point you have to look at, where the natural gas comes from, rather have my money go towards the US than to the Middle east oil companies any day!!!

 

Do you really expect gas prices to go down? There is no such thing as LOWER gas prices. History has proved this time and time again! Once they're up they're up... I believe that this time next year (if not sooner) we'll be wishing that gas was ONLY $4/gal. Gas won't stop going up until we catch up with what the rest of the world is paying...