Prius Plug-in Hybrid Gets Improved 95 MPGe Rating

Re: Toyota specs: 11 miles EV driving range

If you can do the entire trip on battery, I'm not aware of any reason why it is inherently less "efficient" to drive electric at highway speeds than on gas. Driving electric will almost certainly be cheaper than gas.

If your trip is longer than the EV range I'm not sure if it will matter that much where you burn the gas since the Prius is very efficient in city driving (driving highway gas and EV in the city is an effective strategy in the Volt).

 

Re: Toyota specs: 11 miles EV driving range

Will the US Prius PHV have the EV-Hold button (to save EV for city driving). I know the EU one was supposed to have that but wondered if the EPA was going to allow that in the US. I know there is a EV/HV button but still am not clear on what that does. Those in the know want to comment on it?

 

As far as I remember, the figure reported was 42 sec. for the Prius PHV.
Yes, I believe once it is on, the ICE will complete the warm-up cycle.
If ICE is kicking-in again in the test, it will already be warm so my estimate of 42 mpg seems reasonable.
Also note that if mpg is lower than 42 (more liquid fuel) then the kWh/mile will be lower (higher grid electricity efficiency).

 

Re: Toyota specs: 11 miles EV driving range

EV/HV button is to save EV for city driving, and it exists in the US, the default is EV first and the button changes it.
The (EU) EV-city button is to increase load handling capability of EV in city speed driving (less chance of ICE kicking-in).

 

Re: Toyota specs: 11 miles EV driving range

I expect something like charge depletion 95mpge, 27kwh/100 miles and 0.25 gallons gasoline/100 miles. I don't think you can think of it as 42mpg when using gasoline, because it will be using electric all the time its using gasoline in charge depletion mode. If you think about it that way in about 9 charge depletion runs you will use that much gas and that much electricity.

Staying in electric would be more efficient, but it is not likely the battery is up to the task. Lets wait for the full sticker.

 

you mean that the dealers dont have enough Volts to sell?
I think they have 100+ day supply right now...

 

Re: Toyota specs: 11 miles EV driving range

OK
We have new data: 95 mpg(e) and 11 miles charge depleting mode.

My bet for sticker then: 29 kWh/100 miles and 0.19 gal gas/100miles.

Anyone else wants to join? place your bets...

 

Re: Toyota specs: 11 miles EV driving range

I'll update my estimates from
http://priuschat.com/forums/toyota-prius-plug-in/showpost.php?p=1443251&postcount=20
and http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hybrid-ev-alt-fuel-news/showpost.php?p=1462336&postcount=19
where I had estimated a AER of 11 and 10.6 miles respectively. But since Toyota updated the MPGe, I'll update my numbers too..

.164 gallon/100 miles
30 kWh/100 miles (I had estimated 33-34 before they moved to 95mpge)

Yielding 94.8 MPGe which is rounded up to 95.

 

EV range drop again?

When the PiP first started testing last year, Toyota claimed 13 miles in EV mode. Then, since last Sep and leading up to the ordering process going on-line, Toyota claimed 15 miles in EV.

Now, they claim 11 miles in EV mode? The EV mode is the big selling point on this Prius! I understand these are all estimates, but it is still a bit frustrating to have Toyota change the EV numbers this close to getting the car. Am I missing something?

Toyota: 13 Miles: Dec 09
http://pressroom.toyota.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=1822

Toyota: 15 Miles EV: Sep 11
http://pressroom.toyota.com/release...2012+prius+v+prius+plugin+hybrid+vehicles.htm
http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/toyota+introduces+2012+prius+plug-in+hybrid.htm

Toyota: 11 Miles EV
http://www.toyota.com/byt4/2012/prius-plug-in/en/condensed_ebro.pdf

 

The salient data is now out, and we can ignore the absolutely useless MPG(e)

Battery (usable) capacity: ~ 2.4 kwh
EV effficiency (epa, battery - wheels): 2400 wh / (11 miles) = 218.2 wh/mile
EV range: 11 miles (epa)
petrol efficiency: 50 mpg (combined)

For one comparison, the volt:
Battery (usable) capacity: 10.4 kwh
EV efficiency (epa, battery - wheels): 10,400 wh/35 miles = 297 wh/mile
Petrol efficiency: 37 mpg (combined)

I don't really know why the Volt has such lousy EV efficiency, other than it *is* a GM. I cannot help but snicker at the Volt fanbois who where so sure that a serial hybrid design would whip an HSD in electric efficiency. I wonder if it is coincidence that the PiP is ~35% more efficient than the Volt in both electric and petrol modes. Volt fans like to hope that a different ICE would improve MPG, but I wonder.

 

Re: EV range drop again?

The pack size was reduced from 5.2 to 4.4 kWh, which in itself accounts for a lot. The rest comes from how the measurement is taken & reported.

And EV mode may be a selling point, but it's still not as compelling as an affordable price and the resulting MPG.
.

 

Re: EV range drop again?

You are missing that, as many year like to say, Toyota will "Under promise the over deliver". They were promising less range then a Volt, and over delivered on that promise. (Sorry I could not resist).

Actually your seeing that "up to" and EPA testing is quite different.
For all the people that like to complain about it it, the EPA testing still tends to overestimate the actual average user milage. Good drivers, like most on this site, will probably still get close to the original stated goals just as I get 40-50 from my "EPA 35m" ranged volt range. But for each of is there is a lead-foot driving aggressively in the cold bring the average down.

 

Re: EV range drop again?

Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that the EPA usually drops numbers by 30% due to their testing? Wouldn't Toyota take EPA testing into account before making claims and changing them every 6 months?

 

Re: EV range drop again?

I wasn't aware that the pack size was reduced. When did this happen?

Also, the main selling point of the PIP is the EV mode. This is why we are paying a premium over the standard Prius. Everything else supports that main selling point from my perspective.

 

Re: EV range drop again?

EPA is just one country among many. I expect European testing to be around 14 miles EV. Canadian testing will fall somewhere in the middle.

 

Look at EV efficiency. They kicked the Volt's arse, that is for sure.

 

You cannot compare the WH/m for the Prius PHV blended mode testing with the Volts pure EV mode WH/m. The Prius used gas in its 11 miles so of course its electricity use over 11miles is lower. You'll need to convert to MPG(e) or another consistent unit system to be able to combine the energy used from both sources to compare. And we don't yet know the amount of gas used so the numbers are still incomparable except to say 94MPGe Volt and 95MPGe Prius.

And even for your computation as given, the 2.4 is an estimate, we still don't know what was actually used. (Unless you have a source not posted here). Also Wh/mile should be measured from the wall, not just the battery.