Ford says its hybrid technology is advancing faster than Toyota's

If the Fusion can pull off better numbers (isn't the current Fusion rated higher but good luck?) then it will be a huge hit. The new one looks great and will be a big seller.

 

What?
With all due respect, and I think Fusion is a good product, but with all due respect how can Ford say their technology is advancing faster than Toyota's?

I think Ford is mistaking "Trying to Quickly Catch Up" with Advancing Faster.

When Ford can show anything near the useful and available product line of Hybrids that Toyota has? When they have a decade Plus of Hybrid support and advancement behind them? Then Ford can tell me how quickly they advanced.

Until then? They have a nice, and legitimate Hybrid option. I applaud them for that. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I applaud Ford for having products it wants to sell, not halo cars it wants to use to sell other cars, or worse, nothing.

I see a future with the Detroit Big One, unless there is wave after wave of baliouts.

 

It's not hard to advance faster when you start from behind. First of all, you benefit from the leader's research. It's always easier to be the second person to climb a mountain.

Secondly, it's a numbers game. If you start with a low base, you can gain quickly. For example, say I have $10 in my bank account and you have $1,000,000. I add an additional $10 to my account, and you add $100,000. Your account has grown by only 10%, while mine has gone up by 100%. My account is growing faster than yours.

Tom

 

Ford will have a pretty decent line soon:

Fusion Hybrid
Fusion Energi
C-max Hybrid
C-max Energi

Along with:
Focus Electric

Fusion hybrid came out in 09, Escape in 05, yeah they are behind but it took almost a dozen years for Toyota to expand the Prius line.

More cars getting high MPG is a good thing, no point in in-fighting about it.

 

tony, we get your point. you don't have to post twice to emphasize it!

 

we will be trading in our 08 hycam for a new one this spring. if the fusion is available, we will take one out and put it thru the hoops. if it seems better than the new camry, and my wife likes it, we will buy it. but if they are not available yet, than we will stay with toyota. i can't go by epa sticker for mileage, i have to see it for myself under our driving conditions.

 

...FORD can show me the money...I would like to have more choices when the time comes. I am not married to Toyota, they are just my super-heros.

 

And a neophyte off the street stuck in a gym can put 50 lbs on his bench quicker than the current world champion.

The Fusion is a good car. I'd own one--it's just too damn expensive. It has a major hybrid premium. For those who "refuse to drive a Prius" because of brand issues they may not want to deal with (e.g. "OMG, you drive a Prius, lol"), the Fusion is one of the few relevant options. But pride is never cheap and you pay for that Fusion.

 

Thank you, that's how I look at it. Car companies have a template to start with for their hybrids: The Prius template.

Right now Ford is the only other hybrid I would buy. But, don't forget that Ford is using Direct injection, turbo and Lithium, that Toyota have not even started to use yet.

Also for the next Gen Prius!
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/04/24/toyota-targets-45-thermal-efficiency-for-engines-in-next-gen-hy/

 

I see this as Ford is pulling even.

FYI, PHV has Lithium.

I do think Toyota have plateaued somewhat. The focus for Toyota seems to be putting hybrid technology in all of their offerings. If they were going to have an extreme fuel sipper (non PHV) the C was the obvious choice for that. But putting hybrid tech in larger vehicles, especially Taco/Tundra, would make SO many people happy. I can't tell you how many people I have talked to who want a large truck or SUV to get just a mere 25 mpg.

 

Apples & Oranges, PHV is Prius Plug-in.

Fusion hybrid compared to Camry hybrid, which is what we are talking about!
Camry hybrid uses no turbo, no DI, no Lithium.

 

Can you get hybrid Fords outside the USA? We don't have them in the UK and possibly not in the rest of Europe either.

 

thats what PRs are for...

... it is same thing Ford has said 4-5 years ago when they introduced FFH, and 4 years later they sold only 30k hybrids world wide. Good luck though!.

 

Agree.

With respect to Toyota research and know-how, which Ford has been working along since 2004, (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB107880303676250060.html) there are suppliers like Aisin or Sanyo that also been manufacturing parts that are for hybrids only...
Also Toyota has shown many of it engineering secrets, allowing further study and development by others...If a common owner like me can reach data and concept drawings for fun, what can a car manufacturer engineering department do?

 

This doesn't really bode well with history. Toyota has first mover advantages with the prius, and ford has decided not to compete directly. Ford has had supply problems with toyota's psd supplier, as has toyota, and both have brought it in house, and advanced. Ford also has had its battery supplier bought by pev a toyota majority owned joint venture. This necessitated their move to another supplier, and advanced the design. Ford is progressing, in spite of toyota, not because of it.

AFAIK the new fusion and c-max don't use DI or turbo, but are atkinson engines like the one in the camry. Ford does lead toyota in these technologies though.

Ford has added active grill shutters, which improves on the home built grill shutters many prius owners have added. I'm sure many would like toyota to follow suit.

Both companies have independently improved software control since the 2004 patent exchange.

Toyota has cooled egr and ehr, which ford has talked about adding, but AFAIK is not on the 2013 cars. Toyota is further along with weight reduction. We will see if ford has done better with the cost/price boogie man when prices are announced.

When Ford starts shipping we will know whether the 2013 fusion hybrid is more advanced than the camry hybrid, and whether the c-max energi is more advanced than the prius phv. My gut says they are likely to be, but so far we only have press releases. Pricing and availability may be more important than technological superiority on these models, and ford has not done well here in the past. I'm hoping they improve.

 

I agree...but I thought that is what I pretty much said.

 

Ford is proving that power-split hybrids are the best out there. They need to lower the price, the weight and improve on packaging.

With the use of Lithium, the price may be high but the transaxle if in-house so the price may remain the same. NiMH pack in the Camry hybrid takes less room than Sonta hybrid Lithium pack. Hopefully, Ford can package the Lithium pack smaller than the Camry.