Any Volt owner switching over to Prius PHV?

No doubt about it...It's not about the money!

 

Dont underestimate brand loyalty though. Toyota has a great following for Prius.

 

I know, I know, lots of people that don't like plug ins give many low numbers. Frankly, I could care less if wind or natural gas is less efficient getting into the car than oil. We have a great deal more of it, and I would much rather power the fleet with domestic plentiful energy, than to pay treasure to a cartel that controls a dwindling resource. Others seem to do a CO2 to wheels analysis, which again IMHO misses the point, efficiency in pure gasoline cars can never bring down ghg as much as switching power sources. Finally those toyota hydrogen numbers, which have been floating around from other sources, by the hydrogen lobbiests and carb. They assume a whole new infrastructure to steam reform gas and put mobile fuel cells in vehicles, but no new infrastructure in plug-ins. Every year it gets to be more of a distortion. But yes, these numbers are in line with some estimates. If you are using them though, no plug-in makes sense.


That's where the USBMath(tm) comes into play. Starting a cold engine and using it to accelerate makes it less efficient, while electric motors retain their efficiency. This in no way optimizes the power train. You yourself start talking about driving the phv to not turn on the ice. That really is most efficent. The reason for less battery power is lower cost, not more efficiency. If a phev is better than a hv, its going to stay better when accelerating.

And how do you think they got there from 87mpge? They changed firmware to use the ice less and battery more. Toyota did not say, we can boost efficiency by using the ice more often.

The raison d'etre of the phv is to use less gas in the same package as the popular prius. It looks like it hits that mark.

 

I agree 100%. It's not about the cost of gasoline. For me it's about the entire constellation of side-effects of gasoline. The stink, the vibration of a gas engine even when the car is standing still (though the Prius, at least, shuts it off), the environmental disaster of AGW, the depletion by burning of a resource that has many more important uses in pharmaceuticals and fertilizer, the economic ramifications of the balance of trade deficit, the "terrorism tax" on every barrel of middle-east oil, and on and on and on.

That's why I'm willing to pay far more for electric transportation. Electric transportation can be more economical, but not when a single person living alone (me) is going to keep a gas car (the Prius) anyway, for road trips and hauling. And especially not with my electric car.

A used car is always the cheapest transportation, but most Americans choose a car for reasons other than to get the cheapest transportation.

I like driving electric. The cost of gasoline has nothing to do with it at all.

 

Well said Daniel. This is one logical argument. If one follows this logical argument, then Volt may have more potential to kick the gaso habit, whereas Prius PHV may use more gaso but may be more efficient (less CO2, cleaner). Many of us here agree on this logic, but many new members so unavoidable to restate. Actually I have different personal values, so I am not in EV line right now. But important to clarify logical argument for those nearing decision time (saw some related posts on PriusChat FaceBook no one was answering - they need to come over here).

 

The Volt will use less gas if you never drive over some rather low limit, 75 miles maybe. But if that's all you drive, the Leaf is a better choice. For road trips, the Prius (PiP or non-Pi) will burn less gas than the Volt. The Volt is better only in a very narrow range of driving circumstances: Someone who almost always drives more than 15 but less than 35 miles, but on rare occasions needs to drive farther than 100 miles. If you usually drive less than 15 miles, the PiP is more efficient, and if you never drive over 100 miles, the Leaf is better. And if you are in a two-car family, a Prius and a Leaf make a better choice: The Prius for longer trips and the Leaf for commuting.

Both the Volt and the PiP exist for people with range anxiety but who like the idea of EV. We real men drive pure electric.

 

You're not a real man. You have a Prius too.

Right now only rich men or those with very limited driving range needs can drive pure electric .

 

Daniel seems to be the former.

Many 2-car families have constraints on the second vehicle making prius+leaf impractical. My wife won't drive anything without 4wd, and we need something that carry timbers, tons of rock and other landscape material.

Most families have multiple long trips, and if the second car is, like mine, constrained to a awd SUV or CUV, the Volt makes a lot more sense. The most common "2-vehicle" family has at least 1 truck or SUV. While a Prius is more efficient than a Volt on long trips, the majority of miles are generally for commuting. So a SUV+??? will better with a Volt or PHV than a Leaf.

 

'Being rich' is very much a relative term. I consider myself to be very rich (yet I can not afford the car that Daniel drives). I would say that many people would consider anyone who can even afford a (non PiP) Prius 2 to be rich.

The small bit of EV that I will experience in my PiP will be amazing. I can't wait and I am so thankful that I am rich enough to be able to experience it and help promote the technology.

 

I agree with Daniel on Leaf, but this thread is Volt vs. PiP.
Leaf (with discounts) could be cheap wheels over life of vehicle for those with favorable electric rates.

 

That is why I want GM to make a voltec powered Traverse/Acadia or Equinox. Mitubishi seems like they are going to do something along those lines though. Of course if you can carry tons of rock in an SUV/CUV I don't know how you load it, but you could also do it in a wagon most likely if it had the capacity for the weight.

 

Real men don't need excessive range in an EV. They can push if they misjudge a trip.

In theroy, a Leaf, iMiEV, or Focus EV could work for my commute. However, we have a real winter here most years. Single digit temperatures aren't uncommon when I leave in the morning. Without knowing if the range reduction of winter will be ok or too much, it's a risk putting out the cash for an EV.

 

I do not consider 245 miles to be "very limited driving range."

As for being "very rich," I am certainly very well off, and quite rich by global standards. But I live in an area where houses cost probably 1/3 to 1/4 the national average, and my inability to attract a girlfriend (in spite of my money) means that I have no dependents or anyone to spend money on. Most of the people reading this could afford my car if they had my life style.

If you own a house anywhere else in the nation, especially in any big U.S. city, chances are you could afford my car if you lived here instead and didn't have a family to support.

There certainly are places where a truck or SUV are necessary. But most American families live in cities where those are not needed at all. Most SUV-driving Americans got their SUV because they wrongly believe an SUV is safer, and they do nothing with the SUV that a Prius could not do. Some families need to tow a boat or trailer, but most do not.

The combination of Leaf + Prius would not work for all 2-car families, but it would work for enough of them that Nissan and Toyota would not be able to keep up with the demand if every family for whom the combination is ideal made the switch when they were ready for new cars.

 

Let me try again. Currently to be a pure EV driver you either you have to be rich and can afford the long range versions OR your driving range needs can be meet by the much shorter range choices (leaf). I didn't say one had to be both.

And actually you do consider 245mi to be limiting or you wouldn't have a prius too. <wink, wink>

 

lol. You are absolutely right doug.

Choices are good, but very few of us that did not want the power or styling of the tesla would think tesla + used prius is a better deal or better for the environment than a phev

How about a leaf + used boxter s Take the extra money and split it between planting trees and a charity

One size does not fit all and prius phv, volt, and leaf are all nice depending upon needs, and all more expensive than say a fiesta or prius c

With desire to spend more funds, more power to you to buy a tesla, but its a little crazy to think of this as the logical or environmental choice.

 

The 245-mile range is only limiting once a year, when I make my annual pilgrimage to the B.C. mountains. The other reason for the Prius is hauling. The Roadster's biggest limitation is its small size. The Model S will be bigger than the Prius.

And while a lot of people cannot afford a Tesla, many others have simply chosen to spend their money in other ways, such as a house in a more expensive area. I bought a house well within my means so that I could afford to spend money on travel and art, and then on an electric car.

 

Not sure what you meant - but this is exactly my situation. My wife wants a high car. But since that car would have an ICE, the other car we have will always be an EV. No need for two ICEs in our garage.

The other option is a Model X as the SUV & some PHEV as the other car. I'll know tomorrow whether we can afford X.

 

My statement was probably too general. The question will really be which car will be used for long trips and the trip/commute balance. If the SUV is used for long trips it will use much more gas than even a Volt and way more than a PHV. If the SUV is more a comfort/security or hauling stuff requirement than space needs (as in my case) then as long as the long-trips are in good weather we can take the Volt and its more efficient than taking the SUV. With "average" long-trip travel, if the Volt takes 75% of the long trips and is 70% of commute miles in EV, then a Volt+SUV is more efficient than SUV+Leaf. If the SUV's seating space is needed and the daily commute is short enough (60% EV with average long-trip milage in the PHV), then a PHV +SUV can be more efficient that PHV and long-trips in the SUV.

 

I want EV+PHEV. One of them will be a CUV.

We always use the CUV for long trips - mainly because it has more space & more importantly gives a better view. That is the reason why we would most probably go with a compact EV & a crossover PHEV. That is the reason for my interest in C-Max Energi (somewhat smallish, but will do for now).