PIP - Leaf - Or Volt ??? - Help Me Decide

Some Chevy dealers turn down more Volts - Autoweek

 

During yesterday's fantastic day of playoff football I saw quite a few advertisements for the Nissan Leaf... and I can't recall seeing one for the Chevy Volt.

I wonder how many Leafs each commercial sells.

 

Probably many fewer than what those commercials cost Nissan.

In answer to the original posters question, if you don't absolutely need a new car now, wait a while, as I think there will be many more choices in a few years. For myself, the Leaf won't work as a 1 car solution, so I'd have to keep the Prius as well (and store it and pay insurance on it too), the PiP, well that's only a marginal improvement over my 2010 package 5 (and actually less advanced features), not sure it's worth trading in. As far as the Volt, i'm not a GM/Chevrolet fan after having owned several in the past...
I'm waiting to see how the Tesla Model S works out. Yes, it's pricey, but it could be a good 1 car solution with the 240 or 300 packs, and I can wait it out until 2013 or 2014

 

...consider US savings i-Bonds. As of 1-Jan-2012 you are limited to $5000 per person (you+spouse) on-line only. Also if you get a tax refund you can ask for i_Bond pay back. These are risk free and fairly fluid you can sell after 1-year (check me on this). The point is nothing is paying interest right now, so worth taking a chance that inflation is 3% and you get that back.

 

BTW in regard to this question a person should really look up warranties. I was very surprised when I looked up and read the actual warranties on the Leaf and the Volt. The PiP warranty I haven't seen yet.

 

The PiP Warranty is at the bottom of this document.
Repeated Here:

2012 Prius Plug-in Hybrid Product Information
BASIC LIMITED WARRANTY COVERAGE
o Basic: 36 months/36,000 miles (all components other than normal wear and maintenance items).
o Hybrid-Related Component Coverage: Hybrid-related components, including the HV battery, battery
control module, hybrid control module and inverter with converter, are covered for 8 years/100,000
miles. The HV battery may have longer coverage under emissions warranty. In states that have
adopted the California Emission Control Warranty, coverage is 15 years/150,000 miles for
performance and defect, and the hybrid battery is covered for 10 years/150,000 miles. Refer to
applicable Warranty and Maintenance Guide for details.
o Powertrain: 60 months/60,000 miles (engine, transmission/transaxle, drive system, seatbelts and
airbags).
o Rust-Through: 60 months/unlimited miles (corrosion perforation of sheet metal).
• Emissions: Coverages vary under Federal and California regulations. Refer to applicable Warranty
and Maintenance Guide for details.
• Toyota Care – Complimentary maintenance plan with the purchase or lease of every new Toyota. For
2 years or 25,000 miles, whichever comes first, every new Toyota will be covered for all normal factory
scheduled service, as well as 24/7 roadside assistance

 

This does not tell you what the warranty is. Every single vehicle has the exact same basic 8yr/100k warranty for the battery component, but that tells you nothing except that if the battery fails they will replace it. What if the range is reduced from 14 miles to 2 miles? Do they replace it? That warranty does not say they will. What if you park in cold weather does it void the warranty? That does not say so. What if you charge it fully every day does that void the warranty?

You need the actual terms to know.

So when do they replace the battery? When they feel like it.

So they say they will replace it if you lose more than 30% capacity. An actual number shocking.

What will Toyota do? I am not aware of an answer yet, but it sure would be nice if they would be specific instead of just say the battery will degrade and we will replace it if they feel like it. At least in the case of either the volt or the PiP you can still drive the car as far as you want as the battery degrades, but in the EV case your total range will decrease.

 

With the battery divided into a main and sub packs, will Toyota consider the main pack the HV battery and the rest EV?

 

The main and sub-packs was a true configuration for the pre-production model. But, is this configuration still true for the production car? I am thinking it isn't. The pre-production model still had NiMH batteries for the main battery pack. I may be wrong, but that's what I remember.

Update: I just found this thread where Ken@Japan says that it is a single battery pack with four modules in series.

 

That's the rub. The federal and Carb mandated warrantees that cover the battery in hybrids are on emission equipment. Unless the manufacturer states otherwise, it won't cover lost range as long as the car meets its emissions specs and there are no defects(cells gone bad) in the battery.

 

Yeah which is why I like the GM warranty better. I wonder if GM will change their warranty in CA to read something like the leaf instead. Then they can just let it degrade more and pretend it is A-OK.

 

When it takes three weeks after a really severe crash for a Volt to catch fire, I don't know how many will be deterred from buying one because of the fire(s). There are a lot of electric vehicle detractors out there who would like to see the Volt fail. I made my decision to buy the PiP based a lot of factors. Fire wasn't one of them. A lot of cars have fires, even the Prius. I would like to see all electric vehicles succeed including the Volt.

 

Still driving mine, and refused to take the loaner that GM even offered to pay for the gas in. If getting out of my vehicle in 4 days to 3 weeks after an accident is my only concern. I think I will live with it.. It is ashame all the ruckus that was caused over it for nothing. My logic is then that I should not go drifting around corners cause I may accidentally slide in to a pole. In the last few weeks alone I have seen 2 vehicle fires in the HRBT (one was a BMW, the other car I could not determine what it was it was so badly burned).. I have seen quite a few vehicle fires in my time, and anyone that thinks their gasoline car isn't going to burst in to flames with a hard enough impact has a surprise coming if it ever does happen... Not going to sit here and say the car is perfect, but out of all the total loss Volt accidents (real life) there hasn't been one incident of fire either during or after the wreck. One of those was a woman who side swipped and wound up crashing in to a tree. The black one was rear ended by a bus after it was forced out of its lane on the highway. So I feel pretty confident in the cars ability to keep its occupants safe.

I totaled Volt #187

ctdeng0's Album: Volt accident

 

I am leaning towards the Volt myself, I couldn't take the leaf as my only car, and the EV range of the Volt will allow both directions of my commute to be gas free. It's just the 45K price of the loaded Volt that bothers me, although there is a $7500 federal credit on it, bringing it down to $37,500, or exactly the same price as the advanced PiP after its $2500 federal credit. Advantage Volt, if you can keep a lot of your mileage EV, of course we know it gets lower MPG on gas (38 vs 49 for the PiP), but I still say you can do better in the Volt
overall if it fits your commute/driving pattern and you can stay mostly electric (with its 35-50 mile EV range, that's certainly much more possible than with the PiPs 12-15 mile EV range)

 

Perhaps, you may want to take this into consideration. 95 MPGe and then 50 MPG on gas.

2012 Prius Plug-in Hybrid: 95 MPGe. 2012 Chevy Volt: 94 MPGe. Game On?

 

Yes, but look at the quote below from that link, between 15-35 miles per day, the Volt is a better choice. My round trip commute is 34 miles

"As we’ve proven before, the 2012 Prius Plug-in Hybrid is more efficient than the 2012 Chevrolet Volt on trips longer than 70 miles, but if the majority of your daily driving is over 15 miles and under 35 miles in length, the Volt is a better choice. 

Ultimately, real-world mileage for both vehicles will depend on how much you plug in versus how much you use the gasoline engine -- not to mention your individual driving style and the roads you drive on."

 

I recommend you keep a log for a week or two of your driving and see what works. Pen and paper works find or with a cheap OBD2 sensor and an adriod phone you can get automatic logging of a lot of stuff. (USB was very helpful for that for Prius stuff ... thanks). And from that see how often the PiP range and speed limits would work for you vs the Volt.

Look into your power company rates (see if you can get Time-of-day or some special EV rate) and also if you can get renewable energy. (It may cost a bit more but if you can drive every day on wind-power then "fuel" efficiency is a different concern.

My round trip is 34-38 miles (depends on route) and I make it even in the winter. Today I'll hit 46-48 miles EV miles in my Volt as its warmed up to 48 degrees and I had some errands to run. From 10/29/11 to 1/29/12 we drove 2011 mi on 5.6Gallons of Premium + 613kWh of wind power. With total fuel costs of $56.42 that translates to 85 MPGe, 357 MPG and 35.65 MPF$ or $.0280/m

 

In my mind, it is quite a statement that you, after owning all previous generations of the Prius is passing on the Plug-in Prius for a Volt. I can understand the reason for being dissappointed with the PiP for lack of EV range (compared to the Volt) but I, myself, would just not be able to trust anyone other than Toyota to 'get it right' (with producing a plug-in that will be reliable years down the road).

If I couldn't afford the PiP, I would simply get a plug-less Prius. High efficientcy and low emissions also matter to me quite a bit since I will do take occasional long trips in my car. I've got a family too so I need the back seat room.

To each his own, though. I admire the Volt for being first to market. I do hope it succeeds. It's just not for me. I hope it works out for you.

 

That is very impressive!