1.8L starting rattle, knock, events

Nice to see those videos guys, but I must say, your rattling was pretty tame compared to the two I had (long ago). Mine felt and sounded like someone taking a heavy sledgehammer to the engine. The first time it happened scared the crap out of me.

 

I haven't seen this mentioned yet but if this is a problem with the ICE ingesting condensation that forms on the intake manifold, isn't the dewpoint a big factor in this? This would add to the rareness of this, the seeming unpredictability, and the varying levels of knocking experienced.

 

^That is a valuable data point, DetPrius, and one that I will start paying closer attention to as I try to repeat the occurrences.

Spiderman, the first time it happened to me, that was the impression I had, too. This was after leaving it sitting for days in temps that dropped to the single digits. It may very well be that with more time in the environment, there are increased levels of moisture being "coughed" out due to condensation.

 

Yes it may be related to moisture. As I recall the times I have experienced it temperatures were around 30 to 40 degrees with fairly high humidity, usually not below 20 degrees. When it gets cold here it is usually dry and I had no problems then. If I had to "prove" I had a problem by leaving it at a dealer until they encountered it I would have to leave my car there all year.

In my case it's not that it happens frequently, it's the violence of the shaking that worries me.

Since this is an emission control related problem has anyone reported Toyota's failure to "act until proven policy" to the EPA?

 

Maybe this is of some use?

http://www.epa.gov/oms/consumer/warr95fs.txt


I have had cars in the past where a dealer said no to a warranty claim to later say bring it in after they were told it was a emission control device that was causing the fault.

Mike

 

Being in a desert area now, this is especially true for me. Even so, I've managed to recreate the problem 3 times now (yesterday's heavy moisture helped, I suspect). IF the dealership followed the instructions, they could probably recreate the problem within a week, if not less. No other way to make sure they follow the procedure unless you remain on the premises yourself, which I may end up doing for a day, since I apparently have nothing else better to do.

 

"Hammering" is the sound I would describe as well. I am of the opinion that it is much more than an intake manifold issue. I live in a very mild and stable climate. There would have to be quite a volume of water in the intake system/cylinders/manifold to cause this. When my car has done it, it sounds as if the engine is self-destructing; as if many heavy reciprocating parts are out of sync.

Engine tear-downs of cars that have experienced the type of "hammering" that many here have dealt with would be most interesting.

This is starting to sound like Porsche's M96 engine problems. Porsche were silent about them, until engines started to "grenade" and lawsuits were filed. Porsche eventually offered "out of warranty" engine replacements, but not without lots of resistance, and plenty of bad p.r. from owners and enthusiasts.

 

We had this problem ie. rough, misfiring engine (intermittent) at startup that ended up being a injector problem. Try a fuel additive .
Our Prius sounded exactly like all the videos I have seen on this forum about this problem.
Trev

 

I dropped off my 2011 Prius Five at the dealership this evening. I showed them both of my videos and they said they still had to reproduce it for themselves. I explained how I had done it and they looked clueless.

 

They're fronting with the clueless act. They of all people should know how to follow procedure, lol.

I hope you heard some good news today.

 

I don't believe the highlighted is quite true.

The common misnomer is 'the A/C shuts off when the car is stopped'. From my test drive in the 2011 Insight, it was shown that ... when in Eco mode, the A/C goes to a lower fan setting, but doesn't shut off.

I don't know what it does out of Eco mode.

 

More like .. 5 seconds. if they deny, ....

The car should not knock for 1 second on startup.

 

This is getting crazy ... people thinking of trading in their car to get another that hopefully doesn't knock on startup.

 

Being that it is an intermittent, I would think a video should suffice. Dealer may never get the conditions to reproduce the problem.
Last thing an owner needs is 'sorry, we couldn't reproduce so here's your car back'. Then you get into a back and forth, wasting your time.

 

Sounds like the Toyota dealers are taking tips from VW dealers.

 

Video may still not be enough, especially if the dealership insists on repeating it.

I wasn't necessarily connecting a 28-second series of knocks as being the catalyst to go to claims court but good grief, they should be able to put two and two together with something so glaringly obvious (coupled with the fact that Toyota has issued a TSB for the very problem). I have only been able to repeat it with a 3-second knock...not good enough for my local dealership who demands that it recurs in the presence of their own techs.

 

No word today from the dealership. I'm hoping they are giving it a good cold soak. When I dropped it off they pulled me into the Service Managers office and called in their lead tech to watch the videos and ask some questions. So I'm hoping he's taking his time with it or better yet maybe just fixing the problem per the TSB??

Either way they gave me a loaner car so I have transportation.

 

Gave you, eh? I had to pay for my loaner, and all I ended up getting out of it was a lousy free oil change (my last complementary service as I approach the 2-year mark of ownership). Good luck!

If anybody in the Las Vegas area has had luck with getting this done without a hassle, please PM me details or post them here. Thanks. It's a 2-hour trek but I'd do it if I could find a service center that would meet me halfway (figuratively speaking of course).

 

There should be a list made up of dealers to stay away from because of failing to perform TSB's or other known repair issues. I say boycott those dealers and go find another that will take care of a customer.

Mike

 

And alternatively a list of dealers who do right by their customers.