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Should "good" tires be rotated to the front?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Prius_Gnome, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. Prius_Gnome

    Prius_Gnome Junior Member

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    For reasons that will go unsaid, my front tires are now balding on the edges (due to underinflation) while my rear tires look pretty good. I'm only at 21k miles. While I contemplate which tires to purchase (thinking of getting Hankook Optimo H727 even though it doesn't come in the OEM size) and waiting on a discount/sale, do you think I should rotate the tires so that the good pair are in the front?

    a) would rotating them help with traction, especially in snow?
    b) do you think my situation is so dangerous that I should get a new set immediately?

    I'd appreciate any inputs. Thanks in advance.

    Here are photos of my front driver-side and rear driver-side wheels:
     

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  2. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Yes, do rotate them to the front. Otherwise, stopping distance is greater, as is the chance for understeer on snow/ice. Without question, you will have better traction with four new tires, so it is really up to you as far as how many more miles you choose to go. If it were me, I would put the good ones on the front, then buy 4 new tires before the beginning of next winter. Another possibility would be to buy two new tires and put them on the front immediately. As long as you do something, you will be better off.
     
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  3. Prius_Gnome

    Prius_Gnome Junior Member

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    Thanks seilerts.

    The underinflation is due to a plug for a hole in my tire. I think it's slowly leaking, especially in the cold weather. I need to repump my tire at least once a week now. Do you know if getting a patch would fix it? Or if it will mess with TPMS like those slime-in-a-can?
     
  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Concur.
    After all you steer from the front!

    The plug will be OK for now, but I'd seriously think about getting it patched anyway IF you're going to be keeping the tires for more than about a month or two. It'll be about 20 bucks well spent. There's a theory in the M/C community that plugs are a fatal accident waiting to happen. I personally think that this is overblown, since if the plug fails, then you'll just have a hole leading to a flat tire. It won't really explode.
    Now.....having a flat tire at interstate speeds can be unnerving for the novice driver, and it's certainly nothing I'd go through if I could avoid it (like, by patching from the inside!) but YMMV.
    I've been nailed and screwed numerous times with fairly new tires. A patch, properly applied, will last the life of the tire....or at least they've lasted me 80,000+ miles, on at least half a dozen occasions. If the wrench swingers do their thing correctly, and they're pretty good at it usually, there's no reason to believe that it would damage your TPMS sensor.
    A plug is something I'd only be willing to do on an already fairly worn out tire, since you don't have to remove the tire from the rim, BUT.....I'd be shopping for new tires after applying said plug. :)

    Good Luck!!!!
     
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  5. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    I disagree. The better tires should go on the rear. Generally, losing traction at the rear first (oversteer) is considered more dangerous than sliding the front end first (understeer). So, the back should have the best traction, if you have to choose.

    But that's a moot point in this situation, since the OP needs all new tires anyway. ;)
     
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  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I wouldn't be getting acceptable winter performance out of those worn ones in any position. At 20-some-thousand miles, I wasn't happy with the winter traction of my OEM tires even with perfectly even wear. #1 may not even be good enough for summer showers.

    I also come from the school that emergency maneuvering in winter conditions demands reasonably symmetric tire traction, left/right and front/rear. Mismatched traction makes it tougher for anyone to control, but particularly for those with less winter driving experience. Having only the fronts grip, while the rears slip loose and swing around to become the new front, while the car switches to rear-wheel steering with the driver facing backwards, is a recipe for disaster.

    Regular rotation won't help absolute tire life for those who replace tires in pairs. But it helps keep front and rear reasonably matched as they wear down, reducing this winter mismatch problem.
     
  7. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    One recipe for even tire wear is to swap the worn front tires to the rear after the wet season when rear traction is not as important. The fronts will eventually wear down and if they are worse than the rears you can perform the same swap just prior to the next wet season. At some point all 4 will be worn down to unsafe levels and should be replaced.

    This is just and idea and is based upon the general recommended method of putting the tires with the most tread in the rear for the reasons Hyo and Fuzzy mentioned.

    Tire Tech Information - Where to Install New Pairs of Tires?
     
  8. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Heh, you guys are funny. Maybe it is a regional thing.

    Right now on Copart, there are 203 Prii with front-end damage as primary, and just 7 rollovers, out of a total of 365 cars. What does this say about Prii losing control vs. simply failing to stop? Even if you could get the Prius to oversteer, which I have yet to be able to do, there is VSC that will step in.

    Yes, I have read the stories on TireRack and elsewhere about how rear tires will hydroplane first if they have less tread. Even better is the rational that, if you fail to stop or understeer off the roadway, front airbags will protect you! And emergency maneuvers? Most people hit the brakes, close their eyes, and, if possible, reach down to grab their ankles... No one seems to have done a complete test of this theory on a FWD car with stability control. Until I see that, I call BS, particularly when it comes to the Prius.

    The vast majority of real-life problems on ice/snow for the Prius are failure to stop, understeering into the ditch, or getting stuck. Put that pair of new tires on the front.
     
  9. kornkob

    kornkob New Member

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    Your data is incomplete. You mention only a single point of data with no comparative value. So most of the Prius on copart are FE only--- What other car with comparable sales numbers is present on Copart and displays a different ratio?

    Further, that only measures cars that has enough damage that the company holding it is choosing to auction it off instead of doing a quick fix and selling it 'whole'. What it doesn't take into account is those cars without damage because of emergency maneuvers.
     
  10. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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  11. Bodgerx

    Bodgerx Junior Member

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    Or, avoiding this argument completely, and typically do what happens here in the UK: Replace the worn fronts and skip the rotation.
     
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  12. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Seilerts, I was just reading an article from a tire manufacture that stated 70% of all accidents occur in the dry and as such they were focusing their inprovements there. I'll see if I can find it again.

    Ahh here it is: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Primacy-3-Launched.htm

    The point here is that a tire with above legal tread death should have plenty of stopping power in the dry provided they are not dry rotting therefore it is still wisest to put the ones with the most tread in the rear. I can see your point about most accidents being frontal collisions as apposed to spinouts but since a heavier vehicle with lighter tread will maintain contact with the road better than a lighter vehicle with the same tread wouldn't it make sense that due to brake drive, the front tires will maintain enough traction to allow the rears to continue adding their braking power as opposed to hydro planing like they would if they had lower tread deapth AND are unloading due to brake dive?
     
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  13. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Ok I take the point about the partial data. But aren't you better able to take an emergency evasive maneuver with the good tires on the front?
     
  14. tv4fish

    tv4fish Member

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    FWIW :) I agree with uart and seilerts on this one -- the OP lives in New York -- chances are that he is MORE concerned about being able to get where he wants to go right now, rather than worrying about hydroplaning. Put those better tires on the front for now -- come Spring/Summer maybe worry about hydroplaning then. :0
     
  15. kornkob

    kornkob New Member

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    Agreed.

    I admit I am at work reading this while I execute tests on a software release so my head is in a space where I am sensitive to data holes like that.

    <--- Software QA Manager
     
  16. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    I am inclined to agree, people hear in the UK rarely rotate tyres and tend to replace just the fronts on front wheel drive vehicles witch I have no statistics on, but probably make up 80% of cars and light vans on the road. I always prefer the best tyres on the front of my vehicles, but it's personal choice.
     
  17. ursle

    ursle Gas miser

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    IMHO, the tire wrappers are just fooling the public into spending more money by putting the good tires on the rear and the worn on the front, now the worn are going to wear out at an accelerated rate which will incur another set of new tires on the rear, and the worn tires go on the front and wear faster then new would, and the cycle is repeated.
    The rear brakes of a prius are(almost) brand new at 150,000 miles, what rear brakes? Stability control will keep the car from switching ends, having the best rubber on the front for steering control and forward traction is a no "brainer" but if one wants they can certainly put the bad tires on the front and the good tires on the rear, it's still a free country.

    It it were a rear wheel drive car this would be an apt discussion.
     
  18. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    On the Prius in particular surely the best tyres should be on the front to help stop the the ABS from switching off regen and scaring some drivers into thinking they have unintended accelleration. This would also stop the rear brakes from being used leading to less chance of oversteer.
     
  19. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    There is an awful lot of speculation here. It's up to you. Go with someone's opinion on this forum or go with what the tire experts recommend.









     
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  20. Bodgerx

    Bodgerx Junior Member

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    Thing about that Michelin video - tests only what the car is doing in the wet on a corner. What about under braking?