Who's thinking about canceling your preorder?

Yes, thank you. I've seen a few articles about this but nothings been written in stone yet. Prius and Estima as Temporary Electric Generator | Japanese Car News

 

Interesting. When the power goes out here, my solar array also goes off line because it needs a grid tie. I wonder if a two-way charger could also serve that purpose.

Probably not, as it would have to absorb the surplus power whether or not the batteries were full, a feature not necessary absent the solar array.

 

sounds like a nice option, but i wouldn't wait around for it. i'm ready to start purring down the road!

 

I am happy for you guys that are getting what you need out of the pip. You should be psyched, after all it's an amazing car.

 

Flaw logic in my opinion. Hybrid car resale value was not affected by the plugins. Did hybrids affect the non-hybrid resale value? I doubt it.

If the car is designed well and reliability is rock solid, resale value will stand on it's own.

 

Personally, I enjoy the interaction of EV and HV. Only the Prius PHV gives you the power to choose either with a button or your foot on the accelerator.

Driving solely on EV gets boring and numb to it, for me.

 

evnow's point is that the price of a used car depends on the price of an equivalent new car. With plug-ins carrying a new technology premium it makes sense that they would drop in price or increase in range. Either way would decrease the value of a used plug-in.

The liftback used value isn't affected by the PiP in part because the PiP carries a premium.

However, there's also supply constraint, so I don't really see a significant price drop coming in the near future.

 

How is it different than a used 41 MPG Gen I Prius resale value affected by a brand new 50 MPG Prius? Gen I and Gen II resale values are good despite the Gen III.

 

In the past 10 months and 12,000 EV miles that has not been my experience. While not as novel as it once was I still thoroughly enjoy it. Whenever I am forced to drive a traditional ICE I appreciate it just that much more the next time I slide silently and powerfully down the highway.

I hope you guys love your Pips, I really do. But more than anything I hope they make a whole lot wider market demographic hungry for even more EV driving so as a people we can get rid of oil for transportation altogether.

 

New technology premium.

If you buy a bleeding-edge computer, the next year its value is cut dramatically, because its 1-year-old technology is now much cheaper to buy new or people can buy better technology.

The difference between computing and cars is that:
- Computing has more competition providing the same level of performance.
- Computing has few supply constraints.
- Computers are much less expensive.
- Bleeding edge prices don't increase.

With the Prius, from Gen 1 to Gen 2 there was limited supply, no competition, and the new price went up.
With the change from Gen 2 to Gen 3 there was limited improvement, no competition and the price was unchanged.

PHEV changes things: it's using newer battery technologies that are expensive but expected to increase in density and fall in price. TCO and utility depends so much more on the battery that improvements in that technology would significantly improve new vehicles compared to earlier models.

But, if I were considering buying a PiP, I wouldn't be worried about resale value, because I think there is enough constraint in overall supply that demand won't be met.

 

I think a well designed plugin hybrid will retain more resale value than a bad one. If we want to draw parallel in hybrids, HSD vs. IMA.

Blended plugin hybrids like Prius PHV, Energi and Accord Plugin will show more benefits by design over something like Volt. The resale value should also reflect as they age and reveal durability and reliability.

The newer and better plugin models should not affect the resale value much because the new cars and used cars are separate markets. Preceded plugin models will compete with hybrids and non-hybrids in the used market.

 

That is wrong. The new and used car markets are linked together by supply, new car price and loan terms.

For example, when new car supplies were hit by the quake used car prices shot up.

Similarly used Gen 2 Prius prices got silly back in 2004-2008 when Gen 2 demand outstripped supply.

 

if prices of new models don't fluctuate too much (and they probably won't) the effect on the pip shouldn't be much. but if there were a paradigm shift in batteries and someone came out with a $30,000. 25+ mile range vehicle, that might do it. pretty unlikely tho, due to battery development time.

 

Ok so, many factors affect the resale value. What are the chances of a newer model so cheap and more efficient that it hurts the older model? Has it even happened in the automotive history?

 

when the edsel came out, the price of everything else went thru the floor.

 

By the looks of that car, so did Ford's good taste.

 

Hmm, let's look at the big picture here, it wasn't a rifle but it did kick start your present occupation beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the car in question is questionably beautiful if you like money.
Err, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Err, beauty is only skin deep.

 

Well, I'm sure the Model T affected things, but normally the effect is that older models get hurt by competition from other manufacturers (see Chrysler discounting).

Unlike conventional cars plug-in prices are dominated by a single part: the lithium battery. Plug-in utility is dominated by a single part: the lithium battery. Manufacturers that bet on the right battery manufacturer will end up with a significant cost and/or utility advantage.

Except where constrained by supply, a cheaper equivalent decreases the value of competitors. Except where constrained by supply better equivalents decrease the value of competitors.

It's really as simple as the fact that improvements in one area changes price and utility significantly and the improvements are likely to include significant reduction in price: policy is counting on it.

 

If Toyota makes a PIP with 50 mile AER, it will affect the resale value of 13 mile PIP - compared to Toyota continuing to make 13 mile PIPs.

BTW, hybrids (and other fuel efficient cars) affected the value of gas guzzlers when the gas price went up.

 

Yea, if it goes from 13 to 50 miles without intruding the interior space and MSRP is the same. The question is, if it is possible to increase the battery energy density by ~4x in one generation (~5 years) and lower the kWh cost by ~4x.

I am not saying it is impossible but it is highly unlikely. Each generation will be incremental and I don't think the competition will be able to pull that off.