1.8L starting rattle, knock, events

Why no error codes when this happens?

 

A few members did report codes.

 

I'm getting push-back from my dealer. I'm currently sitting in the waiting room for my 10k service. I've had the knocking before and mentioned the issue in the appointment notes and brought the TSB with me to the service appointment. The service lady said unless they can reproduce it, they will not make the repair.

Any suggestions?

 

Yes unfortunately, for the bulletin that calls for intake manifold replacement, the bulletin requires the dealer to confirm the condition themselves.

For the engine mount bulletin, it merely requires a customer complaint of the condition.

If your dealer is nice, they may do the repair for the intake manifold without confirming the condition, but this will be a hit/miss.

 

Yep...they told me unless the Tech can make it happen again right now on the spot...I'm SOL.

So I guess I have to live with the knocks.

 

I would watch the weather forecast, find an extremely cold day, and park it there the night before.

 

Ah, well then this TSB is completely useless.

Replicating this issue is hard, not always predictable, and chances of it happening at a dealership are exceptionally small, even if one tries to cold soak.

I wouldn't bother, honestly. Every time I've had this problem it's been when the car was run only briefly the time before and then waits hours, but when I've tried to reproduce deliberately cannot. Even with the same conditions it doesn't always happen. You could spend weeks trying to reproduce this at the dealership.

 

My 2011 has done it a couple of times once after I drove it 6 on 7 miles at about 50F in ECO mode.getting the motor mount thing next Friday.I have been turning off ECO before turning off the engine and leaving it off until the engine is at full warm up it hasn't done it sense I have been doing that.It really helps the heater a lot in this cold weather.the engine starts stronger then in normal mode.I think they should be programed to start in normal then switch to ECO when they warm up.

 

Eco Mode or normal mode, do not affect the way the car is warming up. Eco has an effect only on the response of the gas pedal, and the way the a/c is run to improve FE. It does not affect ICE behaviour or its warm-up process.

 

How unfortunate, they finally come up with a fix after 2 1/2 years and the TSB is worded to give them an out. Almost none of us who have this problem can reproduce it when we want to. It only happens to most of us a few time a year and only under certain conditions. You might try another dealer that will be interested in future business.

 

The sound that you are hearing is the damper in the transaxle, when it asborbs the shocks from the misfire, it makes that noise...

 

I managed to recreate this a second time (first time was a year ago during that countrywide cold snap) by parking outside overnight in the driveway after interrupting the warmup. I had the camera ready the following morning so that I would have evidence on hand for the dealership just in case they prove to be difficult. It didn't seem to be as loud or as extended this time (perhaps less condensation since temperature only went down to the mid-30s and the car had only been sitting for a night whereas it had been 3-4 days prior with temps dipping into the single digits).

For those who have experienced this, have you also experienced a smell of gasoline emanating from the engine compartment when it occurs? I suppose this would make sense if it was a misfire. When it occurred a year ago, I was not standing in front of the vehicle with the hood open so I didn't notice.

 

All 4 of my incidents have been followed by the heavy gas smell.

 

I was able to reproduce the knocking twice in one day this weekend. I got both on video.

First one was only 3 - 5 seconds long. The second try the knocking lasted for ~28 seconds.

Here are the videos I made to show the dealership when I go in on Tuesday. Hopefully from these two videos the will make the repair.

 

WOW, 28 seconds. If they deny you, I'd goto small claims court.

Did you perform the procedure of interrupting the warmup sequence at least 5 hours prior?

 

Yes and no. The first video I started the car in my garage...shut it off once the engine kicked on. Let it sit for a couple days (beause of rare snow here in Seattle). Then backed it out per the first video. The second video was taken roughly 2 to 3 hours later from where the first video left off. Knocking was even worse.

 

Sheesh. No easy feat to accomplish as you proved. I've considered trading up to a 2012 instead of fighting my sole local dealership, but there's little net benefit other than a higher principal (and a likely higher payment and possible interest rate).

 

I hadn't yet posted my video evidence to this thread, but I have 2 separate incidences where I've been able to repeat the phenomenon in its various incarnations. Both times only lasted a few seconds after leaving the vehicle overnight for approximately 10 hours outdoors with temps dropping to the low to mid-30s. Both instances were followed by a noticeable gasoline odor:

(car was parked at an incline and I am deconditioned, so don't mind the embarrassing panting )

On second thought, that is probably the same sound. It's just there is a different characteristic to the sound when the hood is closed.

That was easy enough for me to reproduce. Even with instructions, the dealership failed. I'll be hounding them every time this happens.

 

That's my thought also..."hounding" them until they fix the problem.

I'm curious how long the car needs to "soak" each time. I tested it a little this past Sunday trying to see if it would happen within ~4 hours of the initial warm up cycle interruption but it didn't. I'm guessing there might be a sweet spot where it happens but of course temperature could play a role too.

 

Do not buy the honda insight. My friend has one. The air conditioning system compressor turns off when the engine is under electric power. It gets very hot and old really quick.

Buy my 2012 Prius instead! It knocks a bit in the early mornings.
It's for sale! Never should have trusted Toyota in the first place.


Love the service advisors expression when I attempted to describe the horrendous sound during start up.