Shifter, "D" should be forward motion and "R" should be backward motion

So hit the only button that puts the car in park if you want to leave the car running momentarily. That's easily done and learned without having to think about it. How would you design the shifter to include park so you'd put it in park without having to look at it? Right now, throwing it in the forward direction puts in in reverse and this is done intuitively and without having to look.

 

I also believe in change when there is good reason to change, even if it forces people to rethink their habits. In this case, the whole point is to SELECT gears. There's no need to SHIFT gears while car is in motion. Remember, this is Prius, a computer on wheels. Perhaps it was tradition that mandated the transmission be placed for the right hand, so that the driver can row the gearbox and steer. But we're in the age of automatics and computers so maybe it's time for a rethink.

If Toyota can make something that does that, while keeping it safe, reliable, cheap to produce, reduced weight, ergonomic, attractive, space saving....etc, then strive towards that, at risk of being different. I don't think the current setup hits all those points. But the Prius is a perfect platform to push the boundaries.

 

Sorry -- can't agree ... no upside to the design .. it is not intuitive and has no positive feedback ... and since they have two separate parts -- I don't see the cost savings ....good design is good design .. and this is not it.

It is a human interface -- and all the computers in the world can't change the human mind ... simple and straightforward is best.


Looks as if they are changing it with the later designed cars

 

Unless you can offer an example of a better design, it doesn't sound like you have one.

How and where?

 

I can push a button and/or pull a lever almost equally as fast. Maybe you could measure a difference with a stop watch, but I gaurantee it is less than a full second. And the button would likely be the slightly quicker one.
And why aren't you looking at your dash?

Most cars on the road today do not have a driver useable clutch.

"power button is a bit cumbersome to find!?!?!?!" Really, you mean that large button high up on my dash, all by itself, that has a green LED light on it when the car is running? Really? you have a hard time finding that?? The one you use at least twice for every trip you take? Maybe you should only ride in taxis if you can't find that quickly and easily.
And why would you "slam it into reverse?" Slap into nuetral, quicker and easier, likely a better result.

 

The feds do have requirements for this. Prius complies.

The standard '3-on-the-tree' manual transmission pattern is well established and it works. The Prius' pattern is a simplified version of that.

You are demanding that Toyota fit your specific limited experience set and established reflex pattern, which is not universal. No one set is universal.

Could this be part of the reason why so many older folks have adapted to Prius faster than have some younger groups?

Oh, but computers most certainly have changed the human mind. Just try comparing the young generation of kids who have always had handheld computerized devices to older folks who still haven't joined the computerized world. The patterns and processes cemented into the brain as it develops and matures have substantial differences.

 

Without looking at all? You risk hitting the wrong button by accident (as there'd be four of them), as opposed to pulling the only lever there is. Now, try that while in a dazed and confused state right after an accident.

 

I'm finding this funny ..... When I spoke to my salesman he said that the shift and start control are universally disliked -- and this is from returning customers!

Having the normal shift pattern ........is a better design -- nothing is gained from the current P design. Many cars have transmission selectors that are completely electronic -- so they are interfaces.

I don't get it ..... Its a car.

And I'm not sure of the model -- the dealer had some pictures of a future model --- I asked because I though that maybe it was a 12 P.


Anyway -- let agree to disagree.

 

If that were true, we'd hear a lot more complaints right here on PriusChat so I think the salesman was just bluffing and telling you what he thought you wanted to hear.

If they were pictures of a concept car, keep in mind that lots of their features aren't exactly practical in daily use.

 

However, 'the only lever there is' has multiple positions it can be put in and even really experienced drivers make mistakes with that.

I witnessed a humvee being pulled out of a pond once after the driver failed to get it into park or set the parking break properly during a training exercise.

And I know I've seen a video or 2 of police officers getting out of their vehicles and faling to properly put the car in park, resulting in a humorous, if dangerous, scramble to stop the rolling car.

20 years ago I failed to properly set a car in park and it rolled into the car in front of us in the parking lot (doing no damage but the car owner had to sit and wait for me to return because if he left, the car would have rolled right after him).

People will continue to make mistakes if they don't visually check that they've put it in park properly, it doesn't matter what the interface is.

I imagine that someone who is well versed in interface design could come up with a better control setup and humans who drive that car could learn to use it quite well.

That being said, any radical redesign in interface would both face challenges getting authorized by the Department of Transportation and would also alienate a segement of their customer base.

 

Because my eye is on the road, where it is supposed to be, not on the dash.

When you reach my age, your eyes will change focus and light adaptation (pupil diameter) much slower than when you were a teenager, putting your one second guarantee into very serious jeopardy if you don't get the button by motor reflex alone.

This is a Gen3 thread. Unlike your Gen2, my power button is lower and hidden behind the steering wheel.

Neutral has a one second delay. The power button has about a three second delay, nullifying your one second guarantee. Reverse skips those delays, gives a double beep confirmation, and gets just as good results.

As the San Diego Lexus 350 tragedy with the CHP officer and his family demonstrated, during an emergency, built in delays contribute to cockpit confusion and error.

 

You can look at the dash and still hit the wrong button out of four.

 

I agree, and this is also evident in pedal confusion. However, the margin of error with 'the only lever there is' is a lot lower than four buttons, the correct one of which you must hit without looking.

 

Not having any data to support that assertion I can only say that that sounds like a logical hypothesis, though I'm equally open to the possibility that someone who learned to drive with a button interface might have different results.

 

Well -- This whole thread was started by someone.

Actually -- It was not only my salesman -- it was multiple. Since many people will drive this car I asked them to be frank with me -- I don't think telling me helped the sale potential.

This car will be driven by numerous people with varying experience .. and ages. A conventional drive control with a park position would be a better design IMO. One control can do it all - why the park button?

I also like a more visual indication of a locked car -- simple flashing LED is nice. Of the five people who drove the car last week no one liked the door lock control ??

 

Prius c -- if you go to cars.com then hybrids and then to the Prius c -- they have pictures and an endorsement of Toyota going to the conventional layout. The photo display on the wall in the dealer must have been for the "c"

 

It's a car, not a video game!

Hi all. I have been a member here for a long time, since I started researching the original Prius, but I think this is my first post.

I am happy to say I am finally the owner of a 2012 Prius 4 and am loving it. But here's a question: Does anyone else wonder if Toyota considered reversing the positions of the R and D on the gear shift lever? Sometimes it feels more like a joystick and I want to push it up (forward) for Drive and pull it back for Reverse. I have to admit the annoying Reverse Beep has saved me once or twice in the past week.

I need to keep reminding myself that, even with all of it's electronics and gadgets, the Prius is a car, NOT a video game.

 

I disagree. The Prius is the most game-like of all cars, which is exactly why it's so addictive for techy folks like me. Next gen Priuses will be even more so, as evidenced on the c and its "ECO score" and other info screens.

If I wanted to feel the road, carve a corner, row a gearbox or hear a throaty growl, I wouldn't buy a Prius.

In fact, I just test drove an Acura ILX and although has much nicer interior and way more kick than my Prius, I was bored out of my skull after 15min. I have no use for conventional ICE cars anymore.

 

take the logical approach :mod:

 

That is technically legal, the law does not say where the engine braking position must be.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2002-title49-vol5/pdf/CFR-2002-title49-vol5-sec571-102.pdf

So P R N D has to be clockwise, and it is, but B can be anywhere except between R, N, and D