Toyota Prius c: 53 MPG city / 46 MPG Hwy; Under $19,000

Yes, I am disappointed in the fuel economy. The city is less than 4% increase over the gen3. It's an improvement, but the c's highway is only slightly better than the gen2's. So the combined is the same as the gen3. If Toyota had remained mum on the fuel economy, I won't have had any expectations to disappoint.

Concerning the Insight2, it did not do well because it was compared to the Prius. For a relatively small amount more, you got more passenger and cargo space in addition do better rated fuel economy. The Prius c is only going to have fuel economy ratings. Users on fuelly and the EPA site report beating the ratings for the Insight. Prius drivers do worse, and the real world fuel economy of both is fairly close. Since it has basically the same rating and drive train, I expect real world reports from average drivers will have the Prius c getting worse mileage also. It will come down to details for the typical buyer between the two.

So, after the newness has worn off, if the Insight doesn't do as well as the Prius c in sales, it will be because of Honda, not Toyota.

 

price difference is quite large - it is $5000+, between Insight and Prius.
Also MPG difference of 12mpg in the city, and 8 mpg combined is also quite large vs Prius c.

Insight has very poor sales. There is no chance that Prius c and Insight sales will be the same.

Insight cant outsell 50% more expensive and same mpg CTh, I dont see how it can do better vs Prius c.

Thats only if you think Prius c will sell poorly... I doubt it will.

 

Crystal ball predictions are very entertaining. Fuel mileage may be whatever one decides to believe. Here is just an example of the differences/similarities of the 2 cars!

Prius c hybrid has a 1.5-liter
Passenger Volume (ftі) 87.4
Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Up (ftі) 17.1

Honda Insight 1.3-liter
Passenger Volume (ftі) 85.0
Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Up (ftі) 15.9

 

The Insight LX is closer to the Prius 2 in features, and the price gap drops to $3000.

I know the Insight's ratings are lower. For the third time, in reports from real life drivers, the Insight does better than EPA and the Prius worse. The Prius is only doing 2 mpg better than the Insight.

The Insight is selling poorly, because Honda makes a buyer pay nearly $2000 more for remote entry and cruise control. For another $3000, people opted for the bigger Prius. As I have said, if the Insight fails, it is because of Honda.

If Toyota follows the same pricing for the c, people will take another look at the Insight. They will also look at the Prius. Good for Toyota if people walking in for a c walk out with liftback. It isn't good for c sale numbers.

The Insight also had a sales rush when it was first introduced in Japan.

I never said the Insight will do better than the c. I said that depending on how Toyota handles the packaging and pricing, and the newness as worn off, it is possible that the two will have equal sales. I do not believe that though, because of Honda's recent decisions and behavior.

I brought up the Insight to show how close it is to the c. After the buzz of being an affordable hybrid, people were let down by the Insight's announced price. We weren't bummed by the c's price because of the Insight, but there is let down over its EPA ratings. I predict here that it won't do any better than the liftback for the average driver in fuel economy.

It's great Toyota is bringing out a more affordable hybrid. Until people start getting test drives, I don't think we can say much on how much better than the Insight it is. The c will sell well. I just think that Honda will be the downfall of the Insight, not the Prius c.

 

The Insight combined output is 98hp and 123lb-ft of torque, but it is 200lbs heavier. The c should be faster, but how a car transmit the power to the driver will determine which feels peppier.

Interior space differences are to do with aerodynamic differences. Toyota wanted a more mainstream style and was willing to sacrifice highway mpg for it. Whether it was to look like the original or the Prius, the Insight likely has the better drag coefficient of the two.

It's interesting in that it appears the two companies switched their respective hybrid styling philosophies.

 

well downfall of Insight is that it used IMA, not HSD .

Prius c is full hybrid, at same price as mild hybrid - Insight. So you get more, for less. Probably will get a bit more equipment in base version too.

So i dont think that Prius c will ever sell same as Insight. Toyota would have to scrw up royally for that. You get full hybrid, more space, more trunk, 20% more MPG, more equipment, same price.

 

If Prius C interior space is bigger than Insight, with higher MPG and similar price, Prius C should outsells Insight big time.

 

I like Honda cars, have owned 6 Honda Accords since 1980, corolla, Camry, Lexus es and currently I am driving a 2012 Acura tsx Special Edition. Reviews like this video did not help the Insight when it first came out.

Consumer Reports Video Hub - Cars - Sedans & Hatchbacks - Honda Insight Review

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2012/01/2013-toyota-prius-c-photo-gallery.html
.

 

cw of the two cars:
1999 Insight: 0.25
2009+ Insight: 0.32 ([ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient]Automobile drag coefficient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame])
2012 Prius c: 0.28 (see the threads here on PC)

Drag coefficient is not intuitive. The Insight has worse cw that the Toyota iQ!

 

Duplicate Post!

 

the insight fails because it drives like crap, you can't get in through the back doors, and the speedo gauge constantly changes color.


people are willing to pay the difference

 

bottom line

$19,000 with 65mpg min.

 

Where did 65 come from?

We've been hearing 50 with a lower price for years.
.

 

Definitely. We already have a liftback, we don't need another one.

 

my threashold

 

That would be like only offering a single sedan. Product diversity is a basic rule of economics. 19 inches shorter does have advantages.
.

 

Why does this myth persist? IMA is not a mild hybrid system. A mild hybrid system provides start/stop and, possibly, minimal assist to help get the car moving. IMA is a regular assist hybrid system. Don't be fooled by low hp of the motor, it is high torque, which is precisely why IMA works.

Honda's problem is that they have been stuck with less stable NiMH batteries (Toyota holds too many NiMH patents that they won't license to Honda), overused them and then, worse, denied the problem.

As Troll mentioned real-world fuel economy of the Insight 2 is actually good, with drivers consistently reporting above EPA. However, it is hard to get real numbers, since the Prius is more mainstream and the driver profile may be different.

My hope for the c is that the real world economy will be similarly good.

Do remember that the Prius c has a smaller battery than the liftback, which means that it too will have to run the engine more. As the Prius c manual indicates, you won't be able to enable EV mode when you have defrost on.

 

Turn off your fanboi filter for a moment.

I mean that I'd buy a $21k 55mpg (city-weighted) c over a $23.5k liftback because we already have a liftback and don't need the additional space.