New York City to receive six Nissan Leafs taxi cabs

The bus and train systems all use a variety of different sized vehicles. Short trains for low occupancy routes, and longer ones for higher demand routes.

I don't see why there couldn't be a variety of taxi capacities. Leafs could handle short runs, and there could be transfers to longer range vehicles.

Apparently the one unsolvable problem is that the lineup order in a taxi queue is paramount. If you can't choose the appropriate vehicle from a group, then the Leaf isn't going to work. Maybe 2 lineups? Heaven forbid letting a customer just choose which vehicle/driver they want.

 

The problem is that taxi drivers are independent operators, for the most part. They get in line, and they expect to get the first fare that comes along when they reach the head of the line. Having chosen their car, their per-mile fuel cost is fixed. They don't care if they have one passenger or six. The fare is the same. So they have no incentive to allow a smaller car behind them to pick up a single person while they sit in their van waiting for a large group.

It would be different if the drivers were employees of a large taxi conglomerate paid by the hour or the month. Then the conglomerate would find it profitable to match group size and trip length to the appropriate car.

No cabbie likes short trips because they pay less. Thus there is a strong disincentive to drive a taxi that requires recharging so often that they frequently have to turn down long trips because they don't have enough charge for it. Or have to return to the depot to switch cars after every 2 or 3 fares.

 

Not true. I know a number of drivers who prefer the short trips over the long trips. In fact, when I used to drive night shifts, I would much prefer short trips at certain times, because the demand was very high, so you would drop one fare and get the next almost immediately - and that flag fall adds up quickly when you have a number of trips.

Here in Sydney, people normally take the first cab on the rank, but if they want any cab on the rank, they have the right to do so. When I am catching a cab instead of driving, I will always look for another cab from my radio group - then if I have a problem, there is a good chance that I can scream at the owner.

I get the feeling that they may put some restrictions on the Leafs during the trial, perhaps with some signs to warn potential customers that the car is limited to certain areas.

A question for any Leaf owner. What do you do if the car tells you that you only have 10 miles range left and you are 20 miles from any known place you can charge?

 

The situation in the UK is the same as Eric describes. Longer jobs are often discounted and/or provided by specialists, depending on what you describe as long. At busy periods it is better to have many short runs one after the other than one time consuming airport run.

Here cabbies are able to refuse a fare for any legal reason (they cant discriminate against race, colour, disabled or guide dogs). The customer is also able to pick off the rank which cab they like the look of too, at least in my area.

The Leaf idea may not work so well as a rank based taxi but for prebooked only it might catch on, so long as the radio group operators agree and despatch suitable jobs.

I still think the 80 mile limit of the Leaf is too low. The Tesla S with 160 would make a usable range of 100-120 miles which is more like it. Perahsp Tesla would want to let me test their model out? I can't promise I won't break it though.

 

Actually, I don't believe it's as simple as that. The problem is time used and fuel consumed while not carrying a fare. A longer trip can mean more time with fares, but not if half your time is spent driving back without a fare. That's why NYC cabbies try to stay in Manhattan at night and refuse to take a fare and drive off, even though they're violating their license. (The suggestion is always to get in the cab before telling them where you're going).

Also, short trips means more trips means more customers which could mean more tips. The drop in tips with the recession really hurt taxi drivers around here, although our small city has fixed fares for trips around town, which makes a difference to the economics.

 

I've been in many a Taxi that has never seen the high side of 40mph in congested areas. In that case, I've never gotten less than 5.5 miles per kWh ... or easily over 100 miles. Even so, when I quick charged from 30% to 80% it only took about 12 minutes. Often, a taxi driver sits twice that long when they troll the airports. Sure it can mean they have to be more aware (since they don't have a 300 mile range) ... but I'd find a way to make it work if I were a driver, and wanting to cut operating costs by 80%

It obviously turns on a driver's usual area that they work, as some drivers don't have to make a regular 25 mile run - and practicality turns on what kind of quick charge infrastructure NY is planning on building. Chicken and the egg.
.

 

Well, it'd be competing against a Prius and in NYC where electricity is expensive. I'd doubt an 80% reduction in cost.

 

You're not improving my opinion of NYC cabbies... But thanks for the tip. :thumb:

 

Heck there are TONS of Pri Cabs all over the nation ... not just the east coast. Lots around LAX too. That said, you DID make me think about electricity costs in NYC ... for about 1 minute ... so now I see that on the average, the NY area pays around 19¢/kWh ...
http://www.bls.gov/ro2/avgengny.pdf
so for me driving the Leaf at 5 miles per kWh that would be (rounding down) a whopping 4¢ per mile.
Compare a 50mpg Prius paying an average gasoling cost (this very day) of $3.65 a gallon around the NY area ...
New York City Gas Prices - Find Cheap Gas Prices in New York
or about 7¢ per mile ... that'd be almost double the Leaf's (electricity) NY fuel cost for me ... and that's not counting costs of oil (and all the other colateral costs ... geopolitical, environmental, etc) that liquid fuel'ed cars require.

And less we forget ... corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) isn't about the great mpg's that a Prius gets ... it's the average of the whole fleet. There are a ton of Crown Vic's still in service as Cab's ... as well as SUV's (thankfully, even some of those are hybrids) so after you factor all the heavy tonage cabs into the mix ... yea ... I'd say you're still around 80% higher fuel costs.

But with carbon based liquid fuels, you can't manufacture/refine your own fuel. It requires a HUGE system, just to MAKE the fuel. EV fuel can even be made at home. It can be made here in the U.S. ... all 100% of it. And once the liquid fuel runs out ?? ... or runs low? ... that's the end .... the kiss of death. All that to say, sure - EV's are by NO means a silver bullet ... but they do have there place especially with liquid fuels requiring such a heavy price - well hidden beyond the pennies per mile.

In short - it looks like NYC is at least TRYING to do something other than wait until liquid fuel supply issues hits critical mass. And for NYC's efforts, a sizable contingent (even here) of nay sayer's see NYC's efforts as being worthy of pooh-pooh'ing. That's ok ... it's exactly what Bob Lutz did toward the Gen I and Gen II Prius. Oh well ... pooh pooh away.
.

 

considering the pollution issues we have (just because its not as visible as it once was in the 70's does not mean it has been eliminated) in congested areas, i am surprised zero emissions had not be required long ago. design a special Leaf with a 32 kwh pack. do this, do that, DO WHATEVER... just make a decision and do it.

fact of the matter is

# of options that need to be invented or developed to bring to market; ZERO

ya, ZERO. zero reasons to not do it. but then again, its against the largest single source of money in this country and the handful that control it.

i am guessing we dont need to mention who they are or what they want

 

Right. Actually a cab Prius wouldn't get 50mpg as our lead-footed Yorkshireman can attest. It's more like 40mpg, I think. So more like 9c/mile. Better, but still not an 80% reduction.

Does change that 80% number.

Forget the Crown Vics. That's a different issue: they get run by taxi companies who aren't paying for the gas. If leasing companies were forced to pay for the gas you'd see more Priuses and more driver performance monitoring systems.

Given purchase costs, I don't think there's an 80% gain to be had over HEVs and efficient ICEVs, at least not until gas prices shoot up.

I'm glad they're doing the pilot. As I wrote earlier in the thread, getting a pilot done will give them real information while people are currently just estimating.