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Household Energy Audit - 2011

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by wjtracy, Jan 12, 2012.

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  1. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...Thank you Icarus, your comment about "cooking with gas" is for JADI from South Jersey, right? I like gas cooking but sometimes that decision (gas vs. elec stove) is more preference than energy consideration. Also ones spouse might have a vote.

    Those of you using propane, I like it, but sounds like it is less efficient than nat gas (or costs more). For example, Corwyn is very low energy use, but is spending more on propane than I spend on nat gas for heat and hot water.
     
    #21 wjtracy, Jan 15, 2012
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Yikes! for oil heat right? Wow. We used oil heat and hot water for many years in our NJ house. It was very cost effective and much cheaper than elec from say 1975 to 2004?

    That shows where we are on energy right now. Oil costs more, but to some extent oil cost constant dollars re: inflation adjustment. What is striking is nat gas is very cheap and electric is now quite cheap if inflation adjusted from 1975.

    One interview I heard, Duke Energy CEO has said the low elec cost is because we have not been building many new elec power plants. Elec cost is expected to go up as old plants are finally replaced.
     
    #22 wjtracy, Jan 15, 2012
  3. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    My comment about "cooking with gas" is directed to anyone who can make the switch to either propane or Natural gas, strictly from a GHG issue. If you have the choice between Natural and Propane, go with Natural, as there are more BTUs per unit volume, and delivery disruptions are way less likely. (That said, gas fracking issues need to be resolved!)

    Propane is a refined oil product essentially (liquified petroleum gas) refined from liquid oil generally. It is very much more expensive on a per BTU basis that natural gas. The price of Propane generally follows closely that of gasoline and fuel oil,, up!

    Natural gas is (in essence) always gaseous. It is not refined (much,, I am not an expert, so feel free to correct me) and compressed and pumped through pipe lines to the end user. There is some energy required to transport, but not nearly as much (per BTU) as propane.

    Bottom line, Natural gas is the cleanest conventional fuel out there in the net/net. (Fracking issues not withstanding) It is certainly the bridge fuel to use as we transition to better alternatives, like solar, wind, etc. If we bridge properly, we will still have enough gas available for what it does well (heating quickly) after transitioning, and enough GHG "headroom" to continue to use it,, efficiently for that which it does well.

    Icarus

    Icarus
     
    #23 icarus, Jan 15, 2012
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    natural gas is much cheaper in these parts than propane. we have propane for the clothes dryer. we moved to a house in '96 that had oil heat. we converted to natural gas through a program for free removel of oil and tank and reduced cost boiler. within months, gas skyrocketed and oil stayed level. then we moved to a house without natural gas in '04 and gas came way down and oil skyrocketed. go figure.
     
    #24 bisco, Jan 15, 2012
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    one thing i'll say comparing boston to south jersey, our heating degree days are probably higher.
     
    #25 bisco, Jan 15, 2012
  6. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    This year we used 12623 kWh. However, this also includes all house cooling, heating, hot water, oven & pool pump. The electric rates looks similar at about 12 cents/kWh.

    I know I'm at the low end of the scale just because I've been working on minimizing every load for five years now. The tricky part has been working on a programmable thermostat program that does not set off the spouse overheating alarm. Comparisons with other programmable operators has come to the universal conclusion (at least around me) that the magic temperature must be 79 degrees at bedtime.
     
    #26 FL_Prius_Driver, Jan 15, 2012
  7. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...Yes that sounds very good elec conservation for FL, especially considering air conditioning...
     
    #27 wjtracy, Jan 16, 2012
  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ....arghhh...I hate when that happens (prices changing so you cannot plan ahead). I have in mind a dream house with solar hot water and maybe solar panels, but the house I am in now is not the one, so still dreaming, and deferring those kind of investments. Hang in there.

    >>Sounds like re: nat gas and national energy policy, we should modify the Pickens plan to worry less about trucks and get some gas lines out to the homes in the Northeast. Northeast was always big on heating oil, not sure why, but lack of nat gas supply lines higher elec costs are two factors (not to mention ole man Winter).
     
    #28 wjtracy, Jan 16, 2012
  9. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Agree with you. I am not a nat gas processing expert, but you are correct to infer no refining per se. Believe there are some clean up steps to remove propane and heavier condensates (if present) and of course they add in the trace of mercaptan smell.
     
    #29 wjtracy, Jan 16, 2012
  10. DetPrius

    DetPrius Active Member

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    OK, this thread made me curious and since I track my elec and nat gas in Excel, it was easy to pick off the numbers. We are in a 1700 sq. ft. ranch home that also has a 1500 sq. ft. basement in the northern Detroit suburbs. Natural gas is for heating, hot water, dryer, and cooking. Our elec for 2011 was 7775 kWh for a cost of $1095.85 and nat gas was 86,300 cubic ft.at a cost of $966.75.
     
    #30 DetPrius, Jan 16, 2012
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  11. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Got it!

    Virginia Super Efficient Home Appliance Rebate Program

    Rebate Activity Notification

    Your rebate claim request has been approved for payment.
    $350 rebate for High Efficiency Washing Machine
     
    #31 wjtracy, Jan 27, 2012
  12. Corwyn

    Corwyn Energy Curmudgeon

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    No question. I would be using Natural Gas instead of Propane if that were an option.

    I also cook with Propane (and my fridge as well).
     
    #32 Corwyn, Mar 7, 2012
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