Planing CanView and BMS+ conversion with lithium

i wil do better
it wil be on the news and papers ;-) big fire

161 x 227 x 7,2 is what i see on this ebay. and tahts for the cels with tabs

3.2V 20Ah A123 LiFePO4 Prismatic APP72161227 PHEV/EV/E-REV Rechargeable Battery | eBay

if really 161/160 then i have to put them on there side . i wanted to place them with the tabs on top but thats to high to fit the cargo space onder the floor.

funny mine al are 0,022 ( andoird torq app ) and thats 0,308 total but canview tells me 0,21 or 0,28 depends on temp i guess.
so my nimh even got higher ohm then yours....? my prius is from 2006 pack 2005. (car 2005 model sold new in jan 2006 )
you have a 2007..... did you also look at the ohm before you did any conversion to plugin?

i did a test to check the capacity of the nihm and compared it to my other cells ( 2005 and 2008 ) and mine was the lowest and the 2008 pack got something like 1kwh. a few 100 more.
also the 2005 add-pack got green corrosion on the busbars. the 2008 did not.
i got them in 2008 so the 2008 was almost new.

the voltage is steady in just a 35 sec or so.. when you start driving i geuss it drops fast? or not..
then mine would be below 240 in just a few mins.
or will the litium voltage stay high up for like 10 min or more before dropping because it got a low voltages range 3,55 - 3,0 volts at 235 volts your already at 3,35 volts per cell is that not to low? or wil it drop really slow after that?
because if its drops really slow after that then at 3,35 i wil have 241 ( 72 cells ) and thats maybe a bit high..
but then again the dc- dc enginer is doing the same.. but then again those dc-dc convertes dont diliver a lot of amps....... maybe thats the problem herre.. the litium wil stil be putting out max amsp to the nihm battery becaue at 240 volts its kept charging itself from the litium pack.. or am i wrong in this?

 

The internal cells resistance from nimh ecu was before the phev conversion.

The cells dimensions that I gived where without tabs. I just mesure one before posting.

The connecting test was done without hsd. Just powered the contactor.

So if you drive voltage will sag under 235v.
70 A123 20Ah are about 0,1 ohm. You can guess the voltage if driving immediatly: 50A => 5V. But don't brake and drive even there is a cat or some stupid bigger animal.

 

Nice. Did you done a test during driving. I ask this because hsd "sends" a lot of noise on HV wires.

Thank you.

Front and back are 12mm thick. It is a little too much, screws are 4mm, but I have already some in my garage. 10mm would be enough. May be 8mm with more screws.
But sides are only 2mm and this is not enough. If you want doing this box use at least 3mm perspex or use polycarbonate, some of mine have small split. But 3mm is more difficult du fold.

 

The operating voltage of the Enginer DC Converter is adjustable to suit any Hybrid. I lowered mine to 236v. Anyhow the lithium absorbs the charge when the NiMH does not so voltage stays at around 232v using 70 cells.

 

so 238 volts with a 72 cells pack ( 3,3 nom ) ? still good.. not?

stuppids out of my way.. here i come i MUST keep moving

nice work!!
dont get al the relays.... and at 3,6 volts is that not a bit high? 252 volts and it wil go down to ? 240? after the voltages setels?
you do not or do not yet balance cells.. so after this charge with the celllogs shutting down the chager did you look at the cel voltages.. and where al up to 3,6 or close to or just that one that triggerde the shutdown

 

Maybe there is a possible risk that the NiMH does not like this high voltage/SoC over time. Along as you are aware. The Lithium pack will set the NiMH voltage when in //. We are venturing into unknown territorry where nobody has gone before, maybe? There is no precedence to look at.

Worst case scenario is that the NiMH electrolyte will boil away or slowly dry up and the NiMH will die or just lose much of it's charge capacity. So your 6.5AH NiMH could be greatly reduced.

 

Just spotted some new cells which could be used to make a lithium battery pack.

2012Newest!!! 1765140 Prism LiFePO4 Battery Cells 3.2V 8.5Ah,high discharge rate | eBay

They are a Chinese battery "Shanghai" and have a continuous discharge rating of 5C. A bit pricey but the delivery price is good. Available in different AH ratings. Just another option. Different dimensions.

 

Yes

Good news. And did you have a look in the 9 logs in order to control if all voltages never have suddenly an impossible value.

Your 9 celllogs may be a low cost solution for some guy here.
What is your celllog réference ? And does it manage upper and under voltage alarm. So your relay is powered in these two conditions.

 

planetaire> would you pls. comment which adjustments/mods did you perform or plan to do on the P. Perkins BMS? And do you plan to use his display unit for BMS as well? Peter has been working hard on BMS solutions and extensive real world testing on many different cars (BEVs, PHEVs, hybrids), I've been watching him for many years..

I gather Peter & Greg are now moving onto the Maximite pocket-computer platform for running the dash-display edrivetrain functions and more in the future
(running as Master board for the bms system):
http://www.batteryvehiclesociety.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3126



Though seemingly unrelated project it shows the powers yet simplicity of affordable
Maximite(DuinoMite) board, cheapo LCD display, and improvised one or bidirectional shunt (page #2) for quick and dirty DC energy flow metering (+relay control, SD card data logger, RST, I/O functions temp etc). This could be easily adapted to dash and/or BEV-PHEV battery pack monitoring device or charger display, or even diy EVSE frontend etc..
http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4480&PN=1
Intro (Maximite vs SM-1 vs DuinoMite): http://geoffg.net/DuinoMite.html



PS so far only one fire in a car with Perkins bms, but that was done by another person, which made some tweaks, and it was generations older than todays latest revision of the system.

 

Well.

This bms, when connected to lithium, work very well during charging.
It stops the charger, balancing is ok and I have a log on a pc.

During driving I have noise problem not solved yet.
This append when amperage is over some value AND speed too.
So during driving the log is not perfect. So we think it is because boost converter voltage elevation when hsd need a voltage over 230v or during regen when it has to reduce this voltage.

The program have been modified in order to
1) send twice the same voltage value so the pc knows if this data value have been damaged
2) don't listen to previous pic message during some time to reduce involuntary data emission.

With an electronic enginer on our french forum and when I have some time, we work on reducing electronic noise impact. I don't have much time and because it is not a major problem I don't take enough time to do some driving test. Have to try some filtering, and some shielding.

The only problem 100% solved is isolation between bms and Pc.
Solved using a bluetooth connection.

The pc I use:

 

funny cells

2x the price of the a123 bags but nice.

thats nice lets see whats happans over time.
i check your link and have to reg the site.. so guess not possible to look thread when not a member?
if not then i have to reg.. there.

mmm i guessing that when that happens the battery wil become a lot hotter and the battery fan wil run more and faster.
so thats a way to notive it.
i wil monitor the battery temp and fan speed with the canbus logging.

i already did a test and from 239-195 voltage discharge the energy was 600wh.
a newer 2008 pack did the same with 1.1kwh.
a 2005 pack i also have did it around 900wh.


i think my pack is already ( before phev ) not that good .. also high internal res. ( if planitair says the battery ohm is high .. mine is a little higher even )

i also have never got a wurs mpg then these last months and yes i now its colder..


on and beyond where no man has gone before

depends are these the cellogs with logging? because you also have them without loggin that are cheaper.
i dont think i ned them with logging because if any drops i will hear it during driving from the beeping of the cell log.

 

mmm confusing
"These batteries are same as with tabs one!The weight of 20ah is about 500g.and the dimensions is 7*161*227mm "
told me after i asked about the size withoud the tabs

i wil build the battery case before when waiting for the cells to arive ( a few weeks i geuss )

how long did you wait for them? and i now your in france but did you pay any costum tax?

 

funny i was looking onto the DuinoMite
because of simple BASIC programming but analog input voltages is 3,3 volts max
so you have to do a bit more work on the board you make to measure the higher voltages.
also it got 19 analog inputs and it needs to be 70-72
a extention board only adss 4 analog for evert extention board.
and those boards come with a lot more than just those 4 inputs so you pay a lot for things you dont use.

 

I did one CellLog8S log during my commute to work 30minutes(22km) in OutOfGas mode at one data transfer per 2 seconds. The graph is attached. Despite having the noise of two DC Converters to contend with there were no impossible values shown. I guess it is not affected by noise because it is only connected to the cells it is measuring and nothing else and just floats. My two CellLog8S just sit on top of the 14 cell battery bank it is logging. Sometimes simple is better.

Maybe Norm Dick of CAN-view index could make a Cell logging device that will transmit all 70-76 cell log values onto the Canbus so they can be viewed on my Canview screen. It could automatically switch off PHEV button for LVC. I have asked Norm to take it under consideration.

 

do i see this correctly and its 3,34 volts avg.
the end voltage is still above 3.3.. is this because the pack is not yet empty or because the A123 cells got some recharge during braking that the voltage went up again enough for it to drive some distance. ( lower ohm so the a123 take on more energy then the oem? )

 

A lot of PHEV users have done the HV fan modification so they can switch on the HV fan at highest speed via a switch. A hot battery will decrease CCL and/or DCL.

See HV fan modification at this site: Prius OEM fan control - EAA-PHEV

If a hot battery is a problem then do the modification. I did mine because I live in a hot climate. I did mine so my Canview relay will make fan run at highest speed depending on NIMH battery temperature. My Mongoose cable(Chinese clone) using Techstream software with PC can also switch on HV fan at any speed. So you could also use your PC to send code message on canbus to Battery ECU to switch HV fan to any speed you like.