it would not work for extreme commuters, or people with active lifestyle. For those who drive more then 100mi a day. People living in NYC, Wash-Baltimore and LA metropolitan areas.
I don't hate EVs per se. If/when they're a viable replacement for one of my ICE vehicles, I might even get one myself. For me, for right now...it's just not workable. They're too expensive, too range limited, they can't tow worth a crap, and the infrastructure doesn't support one for my needs...and MY daily commute is 9.something miles, AND I work in a location where it would be REAL easy to charge at work---"assuming" that my beloved company wouldn't mind people filching electricity from one of the outside outlets---I don't have an EV, so I haven't asked about it. I really don't mind some of my tax dollars going to support the development of this alternative, but I really do not see myself driving one for the next few years. I'm sure that EVs will have their day in the sun---someday. ....just not today. I can't really opine on the driving experience, since I have zero stick and rudder time in an EV (unless you count golf carts) but I'm thinking that they might not be as much 'fun' to drive as one of my motorcycles, or even my truck. I'll wait until the price point and infrastructure support my considering one as a viable transportation appliance before I do a stare and compare. I'm just a work-a-day wire slinger, and so it might be a while for me. I don't pretend to speak for "America", and if I lived in a city my opinions might be a little different. My position on the LEAF used to be that it is a $40,000 climate controlled golf cart with seating for 5 (if you’re really good friends) and DOT approval for interstate travel. I'll shelf that opinion for now with the hope that maybe someday EVs will evolve. Nissan seems to have done a pretty good job with their first EV, and I'll give credit where it's due. I've even seen a few in person (Nashville/Louisville) and they've developed a good following with the well-heeled eco crowd. They're already better than the Mk-1, Mod-0 automobile...it's just that we're not driving the Mk-1, Mod-0 cars anymore. ICE autos has been evolving now for well over 100 years. I'll give EV's a chance to get their own toe-hold in "America" and see how it all shakes out.
Can you explain what you mean by that? The Nissan website says 96 months, 100,000 miles, but no warranty against normal decline in capacity. Nissan LEAF Warranty Information | Nissan USA Are you saying that the warranty doesn't specify any particular minimum percent of original capacity at 8 years, it just warrants that the battery will still work ... some?
Right. It's vague. Nissan have said what's expected and how the range could be affected. That leaves them wiggle room to look at individual circumstances and say that the degradation is normal because the driver's been flogging it. I think that's part of the motivation for Carwings: a full charging record would tell them a lot. Their attitude to battery problems when they occur will say a lot about the company. (C.f. Honda).
Is a Gallon still seriously just $2.50??? Our official price is $8.41 per US gallon, guess I'm a nutcase for NOT driving a Leaf... (as low as $7.65 in the cheapest gasstations). Then again, our kWh price is 'a little higher' too... ($0.28/kWh) :focus:
If America hates electric cars, I wonder why there was such a fuss when the EV1 was taken away from the EV1 drivers.
No....It's back up to about $3.10......unless you're in one of the more 'enlightened' areas of this country where I guess it's closer to $4. YMMV. If gasoline were $8 a gallon here, then I guess I'd have to consider driving.......well.....pretty much what I'm driving right now. There are still no public charging stations in this area, and the other issues that I personally have with EVs would still be in force. Besides.....at 9.something miles, my commute to work would still be easily affordable in my old school ICE powered vehicles. Call me when gas hits $20 a gallon and/or the price for an EV goes below $25 kilobucks.
...well it seems to me, one EV dynamic is extra-strong EV support among eco-minded Californians and other left coasters. I assume that is where a lot of the EV1 fuss came from. I don't sense any dislike of EV on the eastcoast, but it does not make as much sense here yet. We have less smog, less hydro, less solar, more coal, and perhaps longer weekend drives to visit family are more common in the east corridor. P.S.- ...and we also have winter:rain: (lower EV eMPG)
Under the humorous comment was a really obscure point. The EV-1 became vastly more popular with the users after they started using it. The major reasons is that some of the really nice aspects of an electric car are completely unknown to the larger population, just as they were unknown to the first EV-1 users. Here are some of the points. 1) While a big fuss is made of the limited range of a "full tank" in an EV, the actual situation is that the EV user starts EVERY DAY with a full tank. That never happens with an ICE car. So while the maximum range on one tank is less, the daily range available averages out to be more, especially if you wait till you ICE gas tank is empty before refilling. 2) The car problems are vastly less. Check engine light-Gone (along with engine); Transmission fluid-Gone (along with Transmission); Oil Changes-Gone (along with the engine); Air filter, coolant, etc., etc. gone. You get to drive by the Jiffy-Lube just as fast as you drive pass the gas stations. 3) Quiet. A big setback for Pimp-mobiles. 4) Most families have two cars....and invariably in a two car family only one vehicle is used for the out of town trips. An EV just makes what is already done....unchanged. The EV fuss had a lot to do with being forced to give up these very nice features and return to Neanderthal ICE vehicles.
Gas is up to around $3.30-3.40 here. There are predictions it'll go higher, as there is talk of closing a few more refineries in the region. I'm hoping someone comes in and gets the old Valero one working near here, but supposedly Valero couldn't make any $$ on it so they shuddered it a couple years ago I believe.
US avg is $3.34 at the moment USA National Gas Price Heat Map - GasBuddy.com out of curiosity with $8.41 how much do you drive? I'd bet we spend more on gas, even if it is 2.5 times cheaper.
You would say range, long charge time and lack of infrastructure - what ... that it means it won't work for you? Does it really matter if a Harley doesn't work for you, as your sole transportation? ... or that a duallie might not? ... or that a Bugatti might not? It's ok if any of those other forms of transportation don't work for some folks as their primary transportation, right? It seems to almost bug people that EV's DO work for many ... and it seems to be less of an issue for other forms of transportation. .
With all due respect.... I'm thinking that the difference here is tone. I have a Harley. As a transportation appliance, it's not really up to scratch. It is a blast to drive, and I have used it for days on end for sole transportation. If I had to, I could press this or my Kawi into service as primary transportation. OK...so I really dig my bikes. They do really well for fuel efficiency too. Well (*) maybe not the V-Rod... , but the Kawi's not bad. The difference is.....I don't trash talk non-riders. I don't demand infrastructure changes, or tax credits, in fact....I pay significantly more for vehicle taxes for my bikes because they're "luxury" vehicles. We in the M/C community have our our ambassadors too, but the reason there's not as much blow back on us is that we're more of a live and let live bunch. Most EV nuts that I bump into are like militant Vegans...if you know what I mean. Not the "No thanks, I'll have the tofu" kind, but the "How can you f%^$# DO THAT???!!!" kind. It's not a perfect argument to be sure...and I'm picking up what you're putting down about how EVs might someday evolve into a really important vehicle for energy independence---pun almost unintended. They might also be supplanted by another technology, who knows? Relax. Let the haters hate. Don't be them.
you can still put regular gasoline into Harley at any gas station, and it doesn't takes 8hr to do that. And you get a 150mi range out of charge. Granted at 16-25K it is as much expensive toy as Leaf is. FYI I lived for a few years w/o car, bike does fine as sole transportation.. as long as you don't have kids and don't live place with real winter. there isn't any question that EV works for some.. One would argue the bicycle could be even better.
Of course some Americans think EVs are a joke. They're put off by it because they're so stuck in their ways or it doesn't meet needs. Thing is, you need to be 'qualified' and commited (sp?) to own and operate a Leaf. Qualified as in - * you need a secure place to plug in overnight. mynissnaleaf.com already has a thread about potential theft of charge cables. * need to put up about $36k + tax/fees to bring it home, hopefully after you've had the $1.5k L2 installed. tax rebates come later. * need to live in a place where it's rolled out. * need to live in a place where you won't freeze while driving it (I think Fargo ND wouldn't qualify) btw, the '12 is just now coming out with heated steering wheel IRC. There is no 'heater' in the Leaf, right? * meet your daily driving needs * pretty much need it as a 2nd car, unless willing to rent a car for long trips.
You can reduce your outlay by buying a orphan '11 or leasing. You don't need to install any L2 EVSE at home. Plenty of folks have taken advantage of pEEf's EVSE Upgrade - Products and some are fine w/L1 charging. DaveinOlyWA was running on L1 only for months before he (IIRC) went w/pEEF's upgrade. If I get a Leaf (long story why I don't have mine), I'd use just L1. For those qualified, it was possible to get a free EVSE thru the Ecotality project (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=692). Unfortunately, I hear all sorts of complaints that the Blink EVSE they supply is an unreliable, buggy piece of junk. I haven't followed the news on that but FWIW, a friend of mine who picked up a '12 Volt late December (ordered a little while ago) qualified for and got that free Blink EVSE installed and even had the EVSE crash on his first charge (rebooted on him). As for need to live in a place where it's rolled out, some folks where it hasn't been rolled out have picked up orphans from CA dealers and had them shipped. There is a heater in the Leaf, but it obviously saps range and people complain it's slow to heat up as due to it apparently heating water (My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Why hot water heating?). '12 Leafs have been shipping for a little while and have the cold weather package forced onto you (2012 Nissan Leaf gets higher price tag, more standard equipment). I'm not positive whether you could've ordered the '11 Leaf w/the CWP.
From the site you pointed me to: There's plenty of discussion about this at MNL like at My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Battery warranty and My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Warranty booklet doesn't say much about the Battery pack. I really wish Nissan would at least offer some sort of capacity warranty based upon some conservative number... From http://green.autoblog.com/2010/01/25/is-the-nissan-leaf-battery-pack-under-engineered So... I think it might give owners peace of mind if let's say Nissan said.... we'll warrant it to have 65% capacity after 8 years. Unfortunately, they haven't done that. This part of why some people are leasing and part of why I'm in that boat too (if I finally get a Leaf). Even at http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/battery-info/index#/leaf-electric-car/battery-info/index it says
Some parts of the US have it much cheaper (not mine). From Daily Fuel Gauge Report--national, state and local average prices for gasoline, diesel and E-85., Utah has it pretty cheap at $2.941/gal. R-P: People here in the US get really bent out of shape when gas reaches $4/gallon or more with people complaining "it's riduculous" and the news media running news stories entitled "pain at the pump"... Some of the folks could've made the choice to buy a more efficient vehicle prior to "skyrocketing" gas prices and not waiting for the government to raise standards.
25 years ago manufacturers used clever advertising to move people from cars to what was/is a commercial vehicle - SUV's. If they can do that then they can get them into EV's now. (And yes I am aware why Americans shifted into SUVs, but SUV's also became popular in Europe too despite our higher fuel costs, so some damn clever advertising must have been used!)
