Prius C is in hot demand

Yes, I have driven, several.

Few that i can remember...
Toyota Avensis T27 D4D 2009
Citroën C5 1.6HDi 2008
Opel Corsa 1.3CDTI 2009
Ford Fiesta 1.4TDCI 2011
Renault Clio 1.5DCI 2010

Maintenance costs do rise over time, we know scheduled have fixed prices, but parts like turbos do cost a fortune.

Vibrations was meant to urban or low speed driving, as written.

Improved torque is there after turbo lag, and a diesel simply don't have high end. A trade off, isn't it?

Let's keep is simple: diesel still rule in Europe because of fuel price.

 

You, me and many others, I think. Hmm, that gives me an idea...

 

Nothing is cheap from the dealer. Mercedes wants over a $100 to fill the urea tank.
Walmart sells the AdBlue in 2.5 gal boxes for under $12.00. Truck stops have dispensers for around half that price per gallon.

 

Yes it would be nice if there were more high MPG cars
available to the U.S. public.

There is no doubt in my mind that Europe has more choices when
it comes to cars than we do.

Look at all the manufactures there are in Europe. Peugeot makes a diesel hybrid suv that obtains 50 mpg. How many Peugeot dealers in the U.S.?

Let me answer that for you. NONE.

Freedom mean choices not restrictions....

al

 

Freedom also means taking responsibility. Will you as John Public accept personal responsibility when you are injured in a car that has safety measures less than the current US standard ?

Didn't think so.
Read less tea-bagger propaganda. It is turning you brain to mush.

 

Falso amigo. I believe you meant current.

The irony is that biodiesels are significantly lower in pollutants except NOx, but NOx is the easiest pollutant to control.

I hope that with Euro VI significantly reducing emissions so that the EU, Japan and USA are close in emissions standards, engine manufacturers can now concentrate on working to improve efficiency and allow higher B blends. Biodiesel production is highly energy positive and we need diesel for freight transportation.

 

I look forward to The C...because I like smaller vehicles.

But I guess my hopes were a little too high. Just like with the larger V, perhaps my mileage expectations were too high.

I was hoping for 60 mpg EPA. A 5mpg increase over a regular Prius? I think you really have to think about how much you are sacrificing in space, cargo capacity and potential comfort.

It really makes me question. 50 mpg but larger and concievably more comfortable, vs 55 mpg but smaller...and perhaps more spartan?

I guess until the C is available in the States direct comparison is impossible. But I'm begining to think those that bought 2011 Prius II's at years end? Got very good deals.

 

I don't think we can make such an assumption since the Prius c is a totally different car and may not respond the same as your standard GenIII. That being said I'm sure you could hypermile it to get well above the EPA estimates so your # probably isn't too far off depending on what your mix of city vs. highway is.

 

You seem to have missed the context of the original Telmo quote. It was why Europe has so many high mpg alternatives. Telmo made some statements which I disagree with and I pointed it out in the context of the European market. Let me Do the list scheit again.

Particulate filter
Modern filters do not need to be replaced like the old ones did.

$
European market. I am arguing why Europeans have so many choices.

Urea
Not used in Europe.

VW quality
No. Toyota quality if you buy a Toyota diesel, VW quality if buy a VW.

You have driven the 2009 Avensis D4D (I assume the 2.2) and complain about vibrations at urban speed? Those large diesels have even less vibrations than the small eco diesels and are very nicely balanced. Only in cold weather starts do they show their heritage.

turbos
You don't have to replace your turbo if you treat it well. Let the car idle after driving fast in order to let the turbo cool down.

turbo lag
Turbo lag is an issue when racing a turbo car. Don't confuse it with the significant difference in torque before and after the turbo kicks in. A diesel still has more torque than a comparable petrol car at low revs which is great for stop-and-start traffic and city driving. My turbo is rarely active when driving in town.
Let me show you an example. Try to start a small diesel car in 4th gear on a flat (empty) road. It is possible. Now try to do the same in a petrol car.
This difference is partially due to the stronger clutch in a diesel (to handle the torque).

To get back to the subject: Prius c (or rather Yaris hybrid) faces strong competition from the diesels in Europe.

 

I expect (hope) the 'c' will be a great city fuel economy car, and not much better than a standard Prius at US highway speeds.

Since I can hit 70 mpg+ pretty routinely in good weather city driving in our Prius, I want to see 80+ in the 'c' when I drive. That would be pretty cool.

 

Wait a minute ... since the Gen 1 Insight had an epa of 61mg - then you should have been able to do 67-70mpg. Many have even gotten 700miles per tank / 70mpg+ in the Prius. What happened? Lead feet? Oh ... you're talking averages. Never mind

Well ... for folks that want/need GM products, there IS the CRUZ, with its combined EPA of 33mpg. If they go to a dealer & realize the Volt is too expensive, the dealer can steer them that direction.

.

 

Try google "regeneration dpf problems"

It is used by some models already.

2.0 D4D. Vibrates gear stick, steering wheel and sound "clappy" at low rpm, as any other diesel.
"Nicely balanced" only on open road/highway, above 1500rpm and better at 2000rpm.
Last week got a lift on a Audi A4 with start-stop. I thought to myself, that's why so many people switch off the system...
Have you tried a modern petrol car? Yes, the insulation improved along with diesels manufacturing/design, and got even better results.

Know many owners that had to replace their turbos even with religious treatment.

Turbo spins always when engine is running. It does run faster when discharge pressure/flow goes up.
Higher torque does not mean quick response. A roundabout quick entry from a stop done with both Avensis or a Vectra floored below 1200rpm is a PITA.

Please. Just couldn't avoid making a comment.

 

After reading all the other posts on this thread i have two things to say. Yeah baby or Thanks Toyota.

 

Do you agree that particle filters that don't have to be replaced will not have to be replaced unless they have a defect?

I challenge you to find a diesel car in Europe that uses it.

That's quite the difference from my experience with the 2.2 and the first gen. Avensis diesel. What is your experience with diesels since you have so much against them?

Perhaps they should try to maintain the service schedule and let the turbos cool down instead of praying?

Faster responce comes from many aspects. Turbo lag is proportionate with the size of the turbo (hence the dual stages in some turbos), but there are many other reasons why those large cars feel slow. You will have to work the gears more to get faster acceleration from low speeds in a diesel, but isn't that part of the fun?

That's why we have discussion boards. It would be so boring if we all agreed on everything.

Does everyone agree?

 

"Religious treatment" as for schedule and cool down done by the owners (friends of mine), I can garantee that.

You were making humor with my words, it's good for a healthy discussion.

Can't find a purpose to keep posting real facts here if they are of no use or distorted as per preconceptions.

 

You were using unverified anecdotal evidence to prove that diesels have low reliability or high maintenance cost.
I could either point out this fact, claim the opposite (again to highlight the fallacy - this could also categorise as sarcasm) or use humour. I choose the latter in this case because it isn't adequate for the other points and I prefer some degree of variation in my posts.

 

Diesel is just taxed less than gas in some EU countries.

True. But even with comparable emission tests, the most efficient diesels would still be there.

The true reasons would be the perceived advantage in fuel economy (because it's measured in fluid volume with diesel being more energy dense), drivers preference (Many prefer to drive diesels. See my other posts) and reliability. A diesel car has a longer lifespan than a comparable petrol engine (notice that this is one of my key points and why I'm persistent arguing in my other posts)

It's a bit unreasonable given the advantage of energy in diesel, but Prius c has to show 30.3km/l+ on the combined EU-cycle of fuel economy to really make an impact because this is the fuel economy of the Polo Blue Motion.

 

I did some calculations. See them in the end of the post. My local Toyota dealer said (regarding the Yaris hybrid) that he expects 30km/l. It is said that the Japanese JC08 corresponds closely to the Euro test cycle (with which the European vehicles are advertised).
Prius c goes up against the media darling of Polo Blue Motion and its 30.3km/l advertised fuel economy. We already have the Japanese results from the Prius C, and we can use these to estimate the Euro numbers. I did this and estimate the Prius C and Yaris hybrid fuel economy to be 30.3km/l. If we are lucky, and this is the actual results, then Toyota will stand very strong against the euro diesels given the reliability of HSD (assuming that HSD > Diesel > normal)


Euro cycle fuel economy (km/l):
Prius: 25.6
Polo Blue motion: 30.3
Difference: +18.4%

Japanese JC08 (km/l):
Prius: 29.6
Prius C: 35
Difference: +18.2% (Given the lack of a 3rd. significant digit from Prius c, this can vary between 16.6% and 19.6%)
Calculated Euro cycle fuel economy: 30.3. Or between 29.8 and 30.6.

Japanese 10-5 (km/l):
Prius: 35.5
Prius C: 40
Difference: +12.7% (Given the lack of a 3rd. significant digit from Prius c, this can vary between 11.3% and 13.8%)
Calculated Euro cycle fuel economy: 38.9. Or between 28.5 and 29.1.