Woman takes unique road to sue Honda over mileage

Funny though that what EPA indicates is what many Prius owners report.

Now in -Canada- we're still using the old test methods, and there is NO WAY to get the mileage indicated (for a 2011 Prius it's 3.7 l/100 km or 63.6 MPG US city and 3.8 l/100 km or 61.9 MPG US highway).

I know it also says "your mileage may vary". I don't think she should win, but it's a US court so who knows.

 

And it certainly isn't Honda's fault. They (hopefully) have no control over what the EPA rates their cars at.

 

But Honda doesn't hestitate to use the numbers in advertising their cars....

 

By US law, it is the only numbers they are allowed to use.

 

And the US figures are much more realistic than the European test cycle. Everyone knows the test figures are about the best you're going to get out of the car.

 

its in the usa,, so i guesss she wil get like 10 mil dollars ;-)

 

It's do-able in the summer even for me, but I'm not doing as well in colder weather, data is here:
CleanMPG, - Garage An authoritative source on fuel economy and hypermiling

I suspect that either this woman is an especially bad driver, or her driving conditions (short trips, stop-and-go traffic, terrain, etc) may not be conducive to good mpg.

Several ways to tell:
- have someone else drive her car using her usual patterns
- have someone else drive her car in better terrain, longer trips, less traffic, etc.
- put her into a same-year non-hybrid Civic and see if she gets closer to EPA in that.

People driving hybrids probably tend to be especially aware of their mpg because hybrids have much better mpg displays than most non-hybrids, especially older ones. So someone may not realize they get lousy mpg until they buy a hybrid, and then not getting EPA becomes a big issue for them.

 

She say's she wrote Honda and told them she would take 7,500. I'm surprised Honda simply didn't pay her, with perhaps a non-disclosure agreement attached.

I don't think Honda really has much to fear, as far as losing or winning a small claims case. I don't think Honda has much to fear as far as losing a class action suit.

What I think Honda has to fear is the publicity either case would create. Headlines that suggest that owners are suing Honda because of the failure of their Hybrids are the actual edge of the blade.

In this case I'd would of thought paying that request, with a non-disclosure agreement in place, would of been worth it to Honda.

Whether she actually wins in small claims, or whether a class action case ever actually wins, is somewhat inmaterial. What hurts Honda is the publicity that suggests their hybrids are an inferior product. Whether it is true or not.

 

If I understand it correctly she is NOT suing (opting out of the class action) Honda for EPA mileage failures so much as Honda's improperly programming the hybrid battery in such a way so that either the traction battery dies prematurely from aggressive/over use, or, if programmed to last for the requisite 150,000 miles mandated by carb, the Honda Hybrid will then get crappy mileage.

Class actions typically only net the 'victim' a few pennies on the dollar of what the individual case would be worth. Only the attorneys willing to pursue the class will actually profit, and only if they win. They take on the big risk - and typically they're not just up against the plaintiff's attorney's ... but rather they're up against their insurance carrier's attorneys as well. Opting out? I wish her luck. In fact I wish the entire class would file under the CA lemon law . . . woo hoo! new Hondas for all!

.

 

Pure BS...!

A disclaimer such as:

"Very few drivers will experience the level of FE indicated by the EPA estimates, they should be used for comparitive reference only."

Would not be contested by the Feds.

.

 

^^ Tell that to every car manufacturer.

 

PART 259—GUIDE CONCERNING FUEL ECONOMY ADVERTISING FOR NEW AUTOMOBILES :: PART 259--GUIDE CONCERNING FUEL ECONOMY ADVERTISING FOR NEW AUTOMOBILES :: CHAPTER I--FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION :: Title 16 - Commercial Practices :: Code of Federal Regul

 

It's "Small Claims", $5k max payout if she proves her case beyond a doubt to the judge. Likey the claim will be tossed due to lack of merit!

 

Stranger things have happened in courts of law, and by taking her case to small claims, "stranger things" is exactly what I think she is hoping for...

But from her perspective perhaps she's already won. She's created embarrasing headlines for Honda. If you are not interested in $200 dollars cash and either a $500 or $1000 dollar credit for the purchase of another Honda? Then what does she really have to lose?

In balance, either as an individual in small claims court, or as a Class Action suit, I'd think this would be a hard case to win against Honda.

EPA figures are not determined by auto manufacturers and they are always presented with the "your mileage may vary" caveat.

You basically have to prove that in producing the Honda Civic Hybrid, Honda did it with clear intent to defraud buyers with a product they totally misrepresented willingly.

Well the reality might be that with IMA when the battery starts to fail, the MPG falls rapidly...

But that's more the reality of IMA and the reality of batteries. It's like suing Apple because the batteries in you Iphone went dead and now it doesn't work. Unless you can prove Apple knew the batteries would go dead, and were providing knowingly defective batteries? You are out of luck.

No automanufacturer wants to create a product that customers, buyers are unhappy with. So I don't believe that with the 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid, Honda's intent was to defraud or misrepresent.

Honda was first with hybrids with IMA, and stubbornly they have IMO stuck with the technology too long. But if it was so severely and fatally flawed? I don't believe they would still be selling them today.

The design of the 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid was to increase gas mileage. Any owner, of any vehicle might be upset at the actual results they get in the real world. That doesn't mean it's grounds to sue.

Hey, since late November and through December? I'm only averaging about 25-26 mpg gallon with my Honda Fit? Should I sue? EPA is 28-32 mpg....don't hold your breath.

 

There is no way that she will win. She will have spent a ton of money in court all for the PR that will fizzle out in a matter of months. I think any reasonable hybrid owner knows that the mileage will vary depending on driving habits. Hence why I get a certain MPG, and someone with the exact same car may not. Who comes up with the MPG figures...Honda or the EPA? It would be so nice if frivolous lawsuits would no longer be allowed to waste money and court time. It just sounds like this lady thinks she will win the lottery with this case...why are people so selfish and ignorant?

 

Forgot to mention that the folks at CleanMPG averaged 68.5mpg in a Gen 2 Honda Civic Hybrid for a trip around the entire lower 48 states. So it's not as if the car CAN'T do better than 31mpg. This also shows the wide range of "your mileage may vary", more than a factor of 2:
Hypermilers complete new Guinness verified World Record at 68.54mpg (US)! - CleanMPG Forums

 

I read a laundry list (at least a hundred) of complaints from HCH owner's complaining of a massive drop in FE like down to 30 in cars with low miles, like 50k or so.

Many complained Honda service had no clue how to fix the problem instead choosing to 'regropram' the ECU (owners called it lobotmizing the computer).

When they got the cars back, they still put out milq-toast FE figures of 30 something MPGs.

That's the day I turned against Honda and took the safe road realizing their hybrid are nothing less than inferior to any with HSD.

BTW, that 49.3 figure below is from a 2nd fillup in the 46 MPG range that included a bucket load of 1 1/2 mile, 4 minute trips to the hardware store in 50F weather.

HSD > IMA

 

I imagine the cost of filing in small claims isn't to onerous. Of course the pay out is limited to $5000. As to winning or not, it comes down to her arguement. 'Not getting EPA' won't do it. 'Buying the car considering the published EPA rating from when the battery damaging software was in effect, and now the fuel economy dropped when the program was upgraded to fix the battery damaging issue' might. It can viewed has paying for the sunroof, and then having the manufacturer weld it shut to fix a leak. Hey, they payed for the sunroof. Changing the programming is akin to changing the intake or headers, it has an affect on economy and performance. The reprogrammed models should be retested.

 

Little off topic, but worth mentioning something I haven't mentioned before ...

In October, Honda sent a letter to 'have the ECU software updated due to some 08 - '11 Accords getting deposits on oil control rings at cold start'...

so I took it in and had them reprogram the ECU. I don't know if this is related, but not too long afterwards, I noticed a *distinct*, but very subtle knock that came and went at about 2k rpms under moderate acceleration. I burned through a LOT of gas from 2 different Shell stations and a 76 and it persisted. Subtle knock as in only I could notice (the kind you wouldn't take anyone else along trying to hear it).

I didn't trade the car in because of this, but I thought it all very odd in a car with 5k miles on it.

:focus: