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We don't actually have a clear definition though. Even the "all speeds" claim is rather vague. What must the maximum be? And let's not forget that there are some EVs outside the US which accelerate slower than molasses.
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When you ask "what must the maximum be"? The question by itself is vague, which mode are you refering to? But as drinnovation suggests we should discuss semantics in another thread.

 

If a blended plug-in hybrid had the same battery capacity of the EREV, there wouldn't be reason for EREVs. Period.

 

I can never understand the mindset of there is "only" one way of doing things correctly?? What's the purpose of stating like this? Defending HSD when it's not being attacked and talking trash about anything else? The fact is there is no same battery sized third gen blended PHEVs to do head to head to head comparison with first gen EREVs. Have you ever thought about the possibility of adding same sized battery pack might negate any gasoline burning efficiency advantage of HSD currently held? Needless to say that will likely erase the interior spaces advantage that Prius owner all tout against any other EVs/compact hybrids. I am not a Prius engineer and I suspect only they know that. There are reasons why they go with their decisions on battery size they chose, price tag they offered. I won’t imply Prius’s HSD is less well engineered. Making this type of assumption is like saying the following when first gen Prius came out. “If ICE cars are burning as less fuel as it can be, there won’t be HSDs exist. period.”

 

The personal answer is that is has to be able to handle all speeds/accelerations the driver needs.

One could easily use particular standard drive cycles or maximum power demand, For example in their paper "TEST PROCEDURES AND BENCHMARKING
Blended-Type and EV-Capable Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles" DUOBA and Carlson (http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/HV/457.pdf)
use UDDS and US06 as examples. UDDS requires a maximum of about 40KW wheel power, and US06 requires 70KW. One might call the former a UDDS EV-capable, the latter US06 EV-capable.
More realistic cycles like the LA loop (for urban). or RTS (high-way with max speeds 85mph) could also be used.

It is unclear to me if the PiP will be UDDS-Ev-capable. THe original Prius and Plug-in conversion kits for it were not.

 

Dear poster, you don't have to feel offended...
Engineering criticism done by engineer curiosity is a step ahead.
I am a HSD fan, but my post did not imply specific comparison of it, but blending instead.
Strangely enough, Prius plug-in does have same efficiency of the cordless Prius, and that has been stated here for months, if you read other threads.


Requirements for the comparison:
Same battery capacity
Same ICE

Advantages of a EREV - can you number them?

 

Maybe for you. The statement does not hold for most uses. If one had a Blended plug-in hybrid with a 16kw pack, but with only a 10hp electric motor, then it could alway be blended (16hw would last 100s of miles) but could never operate in a pure EV mode except at low loads (slow accel and speeds < 15mph )

The definition of a blended plug-in hybrid is one that NEEDS the second power source for various aspects of its performance (other than range).

Its not just about the pack size, its about the available pure EV performance. If one wants to save gas (and engine starts for emissions reasons), then being able to make the daily commute without the engine is important. As I drive to work on the highway with 75mph speed limits, if your super blended plug-in hybrid could not do 75mph up 3% grade, it would still be burning gas.


Blending using an ICE to help an under-powered Electric motor will need gas for normal performance, hence an EREV satisfies a need. The only way to ensure you don't waste/use gas is to have the Electric motor large enough for all travel demands. Once it can do that its an EREV.

One could just as easily argue that there is not need for a personal automobile (just bike + mass transit), or a need for a truck or an SUV. Different people have different needs. If a blended hybrid fits your need, enjoy it. For many people, including my family, a EREV Volt is a much better choice.

 

Interesting how someone's needs is put up against best engineering practices.
Sorry for my "thought", if you can live with your CS mileage...
And be happy with your choice, please. The last thing an automotive market needs is someone unhappy with their acquisition.

BTW: If a blended plug-in burns gas, please bear in mind that the battery depletion is still ocurring.

 

1. Lower oil consumption
2. Better acceleration
3. Quieter ride
4. Greater potential for self generation of all transportation energy needs (literally self, like at my house)
5. Fewer oil changes
6. Closer step to full electrification
7. Supporting more advanced battery research (I don't believe Toyota would have gone to Lithium if the American companies weren't pushing it)
8. Might be personal preference, but I believe the extra weight (and low center of gravity) helps with the handling and driving experience.

 

Interesting one's desire of holding "best engineering ideal" is to put up with burning gas. Gen 3 Prius maybe a good choice for you when you need to travel over 80 miles daily, most people don’t.
But that is not the only criteria of choosing cars. No one is talking about not like what they choose.
Your tone of "questioning “is not of discussion. It's closer to proclamation.

 

"The definition of a blended plug-in hybrid is one that NEEDS the second power source for various aspects of its performance (other than range)."

Nonsense. This is not religion, it is engineering. I prefer blended use for cost and efficiency.

 

Sounds like you just described an HSD configuration with a larger traction motor.
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You mean at that point it operates like EREV?

 

@gwmort, I believe you haven't read the assumptions correctly.

1. Can't agree, since "oil" consumption has proven be much higher in CS mode for a EREV. CD mode may have "few" moments of ICE working (peak demand), but are much limited, and IMHO are a "lesser penaly" when compared to the CS mode "penalty".
2. Can't agree. Acceleration comparable only with powertrain data avaliability (which are not given)
3. Ok
4. Can't agree. EREV does not imply higher electrification itself, as given in 1., remember you carry an ICE.
5. Can't agree. Oil changes are determined by time, not wear.
6. Can't agree. Same as 1. and 4.
7. Can't agree. Battery search is the same, EREV or blended-plug-ins
8. Can't agree. Weight is the same in both cases.

You have shown a very good reason for a EREV. Quieter ride!

 

1) As demonstrated before, if you don't end up using "oil," why do you care about current gen. CS consumption? “Penalty,” IMHO is forced to use gas when you don’t have to.
2) That is why we can’t prove it “yet.” Even if PiP is a little quicker than regular Prius, it’s still not much. Volt currently out accelerates Prius for 1.2 seconds to 60mph. That much we know.
3) OK
4) It “enables” you to not use gas when you can. Average owners can drive 900 miles between fill up. PHEV carries a ICE too, what is the average mileage number between fill up? Which one has higher electrification in comparison?
5) Really? You don’t change oil every 10000 miles/1 year as recommended by Toyota? Even by time only, EREV calls for one every two years. With ICE running more frequently than EREV and you still say Prius could change oil less frequently than EREV with a straight face?
6) Same as 4)
7) Seriously? When I was considering current gen 3 Prius several months ago they still have NiMH packs. When other hybrids are using lithium packs on the road back then, stock Prius using lithium are still two years away.
8) PiP is 616 lBs lighter per other threads on this forum.

 

Quartzav, you are negleting the assumptions (same batt, same ICE), and going straight to a comparison Volt- PIP.
Doing that, you are losing a straight point of view.

 

We will never have that same batt, same ICE to compare for next five years at least.
If the assumption doesn't exist, why pronounce other idea as stupid and end it with a "period."
Sigh, if you read my previous posts you would know I like PiP to suceed.
Amusing to see that supposedly Prius people supporting using less gas as you do are so fixated to one idea that just shut out another idea completely. You don’t have to agree with people like me, but to make absurd claims like those are not too much different than those people at top of GM saying Volt got 230mpg two years ago. (Completely ignore reality of EREV able to not use meaningful amount of gas in your case, and ignore electricity MPGe in their case.)

 

Thanks. Amusing to chat in a Priuschatroom with someone that doesn't read my posts but respond anyway.

 

Such sarcasm with no proof again…

Kind of make me glad I don't have to come here

 

1. PiP will allow some people to go oil free, if they live close to work and drive mildly, the Volt would allow those same people to drive oil free and will allow more people to join that group who live a little farther or drive more aggressively. The lower CS mileage isn't a factor until trips over 100 miles, and on a routine basis that applies to a small portion of the public.
2. Should specify, I prefer electric acceleration, more powerful electric motor is equal to better acceleration for me, I know the 0-60 time could be clobbered by many ICE's, thats not the point to me.
3.
4. Blended driving will require more/constant gasoline, I can make electricity at home I can not make gasoline.
5. Actually, in these applications oil changes are more likely to be determined by engine hours. In my last year I have nearly 11,000 EV miles and fewer than 4,000 miles traveled with the engine running, in about another 1000 engine miles I'll get an oil change. With blended driving I would have many thousands of more miles traveled with the engine running and probably would have had one by now.
6. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I bet oil companies prefer alternative cars that are still addicted to gasoline, like 100% gas prius, and burn almost all the time PiP.
7. Private owners have been kit upgrading prii to plugs for years, but we didn't see any movement from Toyota to up their game for a long long time; I believe several executives had said they plan to stay primarily with the NiMh.
8. as you wish, as I said its subjective.