Tesla Model S Pricing and Specs Announced

Re: Holiday Update from Tesla

The price of the car is no surprise to me. It's inline w/what the Tesla salespeople have said each time I've gone into their stores. The unknowns were the options.

It does look like a fully decked out model can be quite expensive and that nav system doesn't appear standard, but rather part of a $3,750 package.

Tesla announces pricing, options and battery specs for 2012 Model S makes a mention of differing amounts of battery mileage warranty and links to Model S Update: Pricing and Options | Blog | Tesla Motors.

 

Re: Holiday Update from Tesla

Ok, here comes a dart ....

what is the basic battery warranty period and terms? IRC, was it like 3 yrs. for the Roadster, but could purchase more years for $$?

Or maybe it's a wee too early for that..

 

Re: Holiday Update from Tesla

It's on the Model S Options and Pricing | Tesla Motors page under battery specs.

I didn't even notice it the first time until I read the ABG article. They made their page mostly images so it's not searchable.

edit: ACK!!! I might've misread your post. Only the battery warranty is listed. http://www.teslamotors.com/models/facts says "The vehicle warranty will be announced in 2012."

Also, very curious are the 0-60 mph times vs. battery capacities.

 

I'm very impressed. It's a really beautiful-looking car. Evan, you're a fortunate man to be able to consider such a car. Good for you!

The pricing of the larger battery packs is shocking. I had no idea they were so expensive. If you buy this car and the batteries need replacement at some point, are you really looking at a $30,000 car repair?

 

Thanks for posting this. (I think I got an email from them that might have had a link to the same page. But since I'm not in the market for one, I didn't pay a lot of attention .)

All good choices, in my opinion. I don't know if the Model S will parallel the Roadster as regards "performance" options, but...

The Roadster comes in a Sport and Regular model, and each has Performance, Standard, and Range modes which alter charging and driving behavior. I've never used Performance mode, which they say will shorten battery life. I test-drove a Sport model, and although the specs are different, I couldn't tell the difference between that and my Regular model.

Performance is for people who want the most acceleration they can get out of a car, and maybe Performance suspension makes for more sporty handling. But if (like me) what you want is an electric car, the Model S already has performance well beyond "normal" cars, and unless you have money to burn, or hard acceleration is really important to you, I think the Performance model is overkill.

Of course, one reason to buy the Signature Model is that it will be available sooner.

With the Roadster there is not an extended warranty. There is a battery replacement option: For a period of something like three months after purchase of the car, you can pre-pay for a battery replacement: $12,000 now gets you a new battery in 7 years. This is not a warranty because it is not based on anything going wrong with the battery. You pay now, and in 7 years you get a new battery on request. I think it's transferable if you sell the car, but there's no refund if you do not exercise your option.

As for the rather long battery warranty of the Model S, I'm going to guess like most or all other battery warranties in the EV world, it protects against defects. I'm guessing it will say nothing about loss of capacity with time. I'm also guessing that the Model S, like the Roadster, will have a Standard mode, a Performance mode, and a Range mode; that the advertised ranges will be in Range mode, with a caveat that regular use will degrade battery capacity faster; and that the zero-to-sixty times will be in Performance mode, with the same caveat.

This is like the Roadster: The 245 mile range is in Range mode, and the 3.9 seconds to sixty (3.7 for the Sport model) are in Performance mode, and both will degrade the pack faster than Standard mode, which has less range and slower 0-60. (But still both are extremely impressive: The car tells me 188 miles of range in Standard mode, and that still leaves the bottom 10% available; and they tell me around 4.1 seconds zero to sixty in Standard mode. I have no way to measure that myself. You'd have to go to a track where they have precise and accurate measuring equipment.)

 

glad i took the Leaf (actually would have took first Highway capable EV anyway...) and had actually entertained thought on the S but the lowest package.

size is great, range is great, but now it comes with no QC and the higher packages are waaay out of my budget. bummer, but i be honest with ya. i am banking on a public charging network to boost my L4R (Lowly Leaf's Limited LiIon Range) usability.

and besides, the S for me would be another 2 years away!! waited long enough and pretty happy with what i got! but then again...this IS the "Tesla" forum... i guess i go now

parting shot; sure it sounds expensive but look at similar Mercedes or BMW. is it really that much more? my Neighbor just paid $70,000 for his and he WONT be saving $1,000 to $2,000 a year on gas either

 

Daniel, are you saying that a good rough estimate of a Tesla's range is ~75% of advertized? Is the remaining range estimate accurate?

Thanks.

Jim.

 

Man, I would love to jump up to this type of car. Sadly, it's way over my head! I would need a second job to afford this. If it was half the price I would go for it. I bet a lot of others would too!!!

 

I'd have bought the Leaf, and I know I'd have been happy with it. Like you, I wanted the first freeway-capable EV I could get. 3 1/2 years ago it looked like a conversion was the quickest way to do that, but that was a flop. Then Nissan decided to just keep screwing me over.

No. If you charge in Range mode and drive the Roadster the way you'd drive, say, a Prius, you will get 245 miles on a charge. But if you don't need the 245 miles on a given day (or in my case, ever) then you can charge in Standard mode and extend the life of your battery pack and get 188 miles, with a reserve of about 28 miles to empty. And if even 188 is more than you need on a given day (or in my case, ever) then you can drive like a bat out of hell on a Standard charge and still have around 160 miles on a charge. And if even that is more than you need, you can run the heater full blast and turn the car into a sauna, and still have around 130-odd miles on a charge.

Just as you'll get better mpg in a Prius by driving gently than by jackrabbit starts and hard braking, you'll get better range in an EV (any EV!) by driving gently than by driving hard. And use of climate control will reduce the range of any EV.

The Roadster has a real-world range of 245 miles any time you want it. I drive mine hard because I don't need the range, and because it's fun, and because all my electricity is renewable. (And my choice to live in a small city means my yearly miles are a fraction of the "average" American's.)

Tesla's long-term goal is to build an affordable family EV. Their business plan is to reach this goal by breaking into the car market in the only way a small start-up can compete: With a hand-built high-performance sports car; then a luxury "sporty" sedan. If the Model S is a success it should produce the income and market acceptance to allow them to move into a lower price range, higher volume segment of the car market.

IOW, my buying the Roadster helped make it possible for Evan to buy the Model S, and Evan's buying the Model S will help make it possible for you to buy a more economical EV.

Of course, Tesla is at a disadvantage competing with bigger companies that are now moving into the EV market, starting with Nissan. The Model S is not a direct competitor with the Leaf, but as Tesla moves to more affordable cars, and Nissan (and others) start putting electric drive trains into more high-end cars, they'll be competing head to head. How that plays out will be anybody's guess. I think Tesla has what it takes to succeed. But that's just my opinion. When Apple started out, there were dozens of companies nearly indistinguishable from it. Most of them went out of business. The free market is unforgiving (unless you can afford to buy off enough Congresscritters that they bail you out).

 

Upgrade from 40 to 60 kwh battery is $10k more, or $500 a kwh.
Prepaying now to insure range later goes against my grain, and I doubt that approach will be a money saver. You do end up lugging around unused capacity for years though. A savings grace to overbuying battery now is less heat stress on the pack since you are spreading the power demand over 50% more cells, meaning 33% less power/cell with the larger pack. A smart owner might also have fewer deep discharges on the pack. It would be nice to know how that translates into battery longevity, but for now the only hint is Tesla's willingness to warranty the larger packs for longer periods.

By the way, kudos to Tesla for being pretty darned transparent. You do have to read *all* of their information to be an informed consumer, but the information is there and written for clarity. E.g, they do not try to hide that the range estimates of 250 wh/mile are based on 55 mph steady state speeds. Hardly 'real world' most of the time but at least the prospective buyer knows the context of the result.

 

Thinking out loud on needed grid-connection in the Netherlands: only read on if you're interested, otherwise this will be boring to read...

Thanks for the link. I've looked for info on the charger on the net but had not yet found any info.

The electricity grid is probably very different in the Netherlands and the costs associated with it are too.

Normally houses are warmed with natural gas here. My house has 1 phase 230V 35A and natural gas for cooking and heating.

Have been looking at a house with earth-warmth. (runs water 100meters or so into the earth and has a compressor-pump to extract or transfer heat to it in combination with an electrical heater: system both heats and cools the house when needed, no natural-gas supply present).

The powersupply is 3 phase 230VAC, 3x63 amps I think. But 3x25 amps is close to 1000$ a year cheaper in fixed costs... (you'll need an automated switch that senses currentdraw within the house before switching on the 10+kW heater in the earth-warmth-pump, but this could easily work).

The need for a 240V, 125A connection (so for us a 230V, 3x35A at least) would for my current or for my (possibly) future house mean I'm out $1000 EXTRA a year.
I could buy a friggin' amount of gas/petrol for that, even with our $8.80 a gallon petrol prices (no, that's not a typo*, but our cheapest gas is better quality (95 ron) than your cheapest type I think).


Apart from the insurmountable pricing of the Model S, I guess that's another bear on the road

But I will keep on dreaming of having a house where I supply more energy from my solarpanels (5kWp atm.) than I use and feed the surplus into my Model S (or converted PiP Gen II for that matter...)

:focus:




*: I could do some more ranting, as apart from about the highest gasprices in the world, we also have regular (19%) AND special car-sales (40%) sales-tax. The Model S is exempt from the latter, as was my Prius. And we have stupidly high roadtax ($2500/year for my Volvo) from which the Model S is also exempt. But only until 2015 (My Prius until 2013). So you fork over 100k$ for a car and the government doesn't give you any info on the financial ramifications this will have on you after 2015... How the **** can you plan such a purchase without this info if you're a regular Joe that has to work friggin' hard for such a once-in-a-lifetime purchase??? Simples: you can't. So I might as well stop dreaming: it ain't gonna happen.

 

You don't need a 125A connection. The basic charger is "upto" 10 kW. So, you could even just use just 240V/16 Amps.

Checkout Teslamotorsclub.com - there are a lot of people from Europe with specific information.

 

R-P: For my Roadster I have a 9.6 kW charger. (240 v. 40 a.) It gives me roughly 30 miles of range for each hour of charging. I can dial that down if I want to charge more slowly, or if I'm charging on a circuit with lower amperage. You only need the bigger charger if you want faster charging. I would actually be fine with half the charging power.

So I really think that charging capacity is not an issue.

The price of the car, and any applicable taxes, are another matter, of course. The Model S is not intended to be an affordable car for the working class. It's a high-end luxury car for those who can afford it. As I mentioned in my earlier post, Tesla's plan is eventually to build an affordable family EV. But they are a new company and have to work toward that goal gradually. And for now, the Nissan Leaf is a more affordable (and shorter range) EV. I don't know if it's available in the Netherlands. But if it's not, I imagine it soon will be.

 

But the Leaf is no substitute for my Volvo V70 AWD... The Model S is...

Thanks for the info: I love details like knowing you can simply dial in what power is available to charge with!!!

I will have a look at the Teslamotorsclub site.

Thanks for the info! (Will look at the Prius Estate day after tomorrow (first viewing, have 'tickets', only on show for 100 hours...))

 

I saw it today in their San Jose showroom. I get it!! They had the whole car, and it's gorgeous! They also had an entire floor pan, with the batteries, and the motor between the rear wheels.

Once industry conquers battery cost, it's over for the internal combustion car. There is no doubt in my mind -- no transmission, no clutch, no fuel pump, no gas tank, no pistons, no connecting rods, no alternator, no air filter, no valves, no spark plugs, no ignition, no belts, no oil... I think the only maintenance is replacing the tires and windshield wipers!

The Kool Aid has been drunk.

 

I think there might be an air filter for the cabin air.