Possible alternative to the V (which I like) might be the Fit and the....

These are the exact two im looking at as well. Though I do not know how they are 'copies' of the v when they were both out well before.

Im finding that the prius v beats them both AFTER 5 years, mainly in fuel costs. Question is going to be, does the v beat them MORE than the cost of replacement batteries? Corollary question, will the v suit my needs for 7-10 years?

Prius and Jetta are both $7k OTD more than the Mazda5. Mazda has a bulletproof, proven engine with a large market for parts. Many Mazda3 parts work. Which is good, because its notorious for going through shocks. Sliding doors +++ for family, though the wife says that since shes never had them shes not missing them yet.

Jetta Sportwagen TDI is close in mileage, but uses slightly more expensive diesel. I dont mind paying a little more on fuel for a LOT more power. Dealbreaker for me is the lack of rear seat room, this needs to haul two adults plus two kids up to 10 years old. This car can be made into a beast for power and still get 40MPG with just a tune. VW build quality though.

You need to consider fuel, repair costs, financing, insurance, maybe depreciation.

The Fit is an amazing car for what it is, LOTS of room for its size, amazing gas mileage. Its a really great car for singles, young people, or commuters. Sucks for almost everyone else.

Hyundai's strategy is to fully utilize turbo+GDI and produce engines with worse gas mileage than hybrids, but cheaper total cost of ownership and better equipped and warrantied. The Sonata Hybrid is so they are taken seriously in their other markets.

Ultimately, were all going to be driving turbo clean diesel hybrid 4-cylinders getting 60mpg. Until cheap nuke energy drives us to build enough infrastructure for plug ins.

 

I've been looking at alternatives to the V as well. If you're not in a hurry, the Ford C-Max Hybrid and PHEV are due out in 2012 and will be direct competitors to the V in MPG, size, and functionality. I have seen no pricing on them as yet. I have a 2008 Prius now and love it (functionality is great and just under 60 MPG most of the time). My wife drives a Ford Fusion Hybrid (45 MPG most of the time) and we both are high on Ford hybrids. I like the Mazda5 and wish it were a hybrid, but as currently configured it is too thirsty for me personally. BTW, the cost of ownership of any hybrid is likely to remain relatively low because their depreciation costs should remain low, especially if oil supplies are threatened. Good luck!

 

I am right at the same size you are. I'm buying a car for my wife, and will very rarely drive it. However, when I shoehorned myself into the Fit and drove it a few miles, I immediately knew I would hate it each and every time I ever drove it. Go down to the Stealership and try one on if you like, but you'll find it's like Levis that are two sizes too small.

 

Rode in a Mazda5 yesterday, I was very disappointed. There is a simple reason why it is so much cheaper than a v. It had a very cheap feel to it. The driver's area was very cramped and the red gauges are horrid. The dash is way too big. The 2nd row seats looked small as well. It makes me love my v even more. Also on this whole Fit debate I am sure if you went to Fitchat.com there would be people there going why spend 16k for a Fit when you can get a Nissan or Korean for $12k. Bottom line you get what you pay for.

 

Took a look at the v in person today and WOW the space just blows the Jetta Sportwagen away. WAY more comfortable, PLENTY of room for 2 or even 3 kids PLUS all their crap. Only dissapointment was the interior fabric felt WAY cheaper that either the Mazda5 an especially the sportwagen. The Sportwagen was NICE, not luxury of course, but pretty darn nice for the pricepoint. The prius made my 05 ford focus look like an upgrade. The rest of the interior was well laid out, cheap hard plastic, but thats as expected, and not BAD. The cloth though, was bad. Not a dealbreaker for me though.

One big difference, VWs salesman when asked on price "we can probably do invoice" which means ill work him down from there to below invoice pretty easily. Toyotas salesman "these rarely go for much below MSRP" which means he's gonna try and rape me. Online resources say VW guy is realistic, and Toyota guy is lying. I can find these both at near invoice right now, and getting below that is as easy as a few calls/emails. Altogether, means im more likely to buy a sportwagen from the reasonable dealer, and order a prius v online rather than get my balls broken for 3 hours "lemme check with my manager".

I told Toyota guy to call me when a pleather v5 comes in. Though, HIGHLY unlikely ill spring for the v5. They need to offer a pleather upgrade in the cheaper v3 trim.

No man, the C-Max estate was the V's direct competitor, really an updated Mazda5 with power rear hatch and a fuel-efficient DI turbo 4. It got cancelled, Ford said there's no market here for it (Prius v hitting the market probably didnt help). Same deal with the Passat wagon thats bigger and gets the SAME mileage as the jetta sportwagen, management says americans just want SUVs.

I do not know how they can all say theres no market when...I cant even find a reasonably priced family vehicle slightly larger than a sedan that gets decent gas mileage, other than prius v. To my mind, thats a pretty BIG market thats just sitting on the table.

Mazda5 trends about $7k LESS than Prius v. I do 15k miles a year and dont think the prius will save me $7k in 5 years. The Mazda is the better choice for most consumers who dont want to pay $ for a nebulous feeling of environmental do-gooder-ship. Plus SLIDING DOORS! Prius v makes more sense if leasing, driving more than 15k a year, or keeping the car more than 5 years (my particular case). Though i agree, Mazda5 needs an updated DI turbo4. Im hoping they get the one Ford was gonna drop in the cancelled C-Max, 180hp and they claim it was touching 40mpg hwy. That and shocks designed for the weight/size, not just Mazda3 re-issues.

 

Keep in mind that many of us buy the Prius or other top-tier fuel efficient cars for the reduced emissions and how those affect human health and the economy. Others do it for national security and how reduced fuel use affects our foreign policy and the lives of soldiers fighting to secure our energy transport lines. This will become even more important as we start to focus on China now.... Uggg

There is MUCH more to fuel efficiency than just saving the environment. lol

 

You're fronting more money to get a Prius v over a Mazda5 of course, but do keep in mind the resale value is always higher with a prius v over a Mazda5. Resale value is the other part of the equation that I've often forgotten, but it factors into total cost of ownership.

 

You're right, I should have used the more broad business term, ESG (environmental, social, governance). That accurately defines what I meant, ie; reasons for a higher price that don't really make any sense. Completely relevant, because Toyota has been making big profit on these zero-cost adds for years now. (Not knocking any consumers choices tho)

Resale value, I do not know, I think resale value is a trap. The way I look at it, who cares if resale is $2k less if I paid $2k less out the door anyway. Lower OTD cost actually means lower depreciation, insurance, taxes, and intrest charges too. Regardless of resale value, I'm gonna get enough $ for a replacement in the event of a wreck, I just might not get enough for a BETTER car. But again, that comes down to, I paid much less originally anyway. I'm kind of a special case though, I like to keep my cars, I know most people lease or get rid if them after 4-5 years.

Thing is, even if Mazda5 gets a new fuel efficient engine, the higher cost will offset gas savings. However, you can replace the mazdas shocks, the prius v interior is much more tricky.

 

I assumed you were just keeping it brief. I just like to add those other reasons when possible as I'm sure some viewers of this site never make those connections.

 

zero cost add ons??? what?

Full power split hybrids cost good bit more to produce than conventionals - 100+ lb NimH traction battery, inverter, 2 motor generators, regen braking system, high-voltage electrical cables, neodymum magnets in motors.

Search and study, these drive trains are sophisticated.

But look at fuelly.com and see the Prius v scoring 42.x MPG average. Not even going to look, but the mazda5 would be muddied down around 24 MPG. Figure cents / mile, look at all the features of both cars, be fair ........ I found they break about even in gas savings in something like 75,000 miles, no counting resale value.

 

I ordered a Prius V fully loaded (currently waiting on delivery). My decision was based on a few factors. I have a young 8mo old daughter and kids require double the space of cargo than adults especially for any trip lasting more than 8 hours. i am also about to begin a job that requires me to drive to several places up to 70 miles away. so i needed something with great gas mileage and lots of room. i tried out the Ford Fusion hybrid and i was impressed except for the cargo room, the trunk is filled with hybrid battery and is maybe a foot larger than my BMW 3 series trunk. The only choices were the Ford Escape Hybrid and the Prius V hybrid. The Ford is a little bit sexier and a bit more pickup, however it is about 8 inches wider and i have an LA driveway so, it wouldn't fit. The Prius V has nearly the same interior volume, i am 5'11" and i sat in the back while my wife test drove it and i had room to spare, the dealer was about the same height as me and he had plenty of room in front of me. the car is only 1" wider than my BMW so it will fit in the driveway fine and gets better gas mileage than the Escape.

All in all if cargo space is important i would say go with the Escape or Prius V. If not, go with the regular Prius, nearly the same interior space for passengers but half the cargo space.

 

I traded my Sport Fit for a Prius V. I averaged 32mpg I never averaged 37. I had an automatic Sport Fit. Make sure you get the manual Sport Fit only the manual gets the high gas mileage. If you do all freeway driving the Fit might work. I do country roads and hills so the Prius is better for me. Flat freeways in a Fit get the mileage. If the terrain is like that where you live and it is warm you'll get the mileage. In the winter I averaged under 30 mpg with the Fit.

 

The Jetta Sportwagen TDI only has 6 more horsepower. Hardly a "lot". That results in a 1.5sec faster 0-60 (8.8 versus 10.3) and 0.2sec faster in the 1/4 mi (17.3 versus 17.5). It has a "lot" more torque, which makes it feel livelier when you press the gas from a cruising* RPM, but it isn't a fast car. I certainly agree it is more pleasurable to drive than the Prius, but I have our MINI S for fun to drive. I want space, efficiency, and reliability. My '07 GTI taught me a painful lesson about VWs. Great to drive, horrible to own.

*This is where being a CVT, and tuned for ultimate fuel economy, hurts the Prius. It is always going to have you in the tallest "gear" possible unless you tell it otherwise with your right foot.

 

View attachment fuel_mileage_compare.xls

 

Tough to beat a Camry LE - seats 5 all day, big trunk, split folding rear seat. If you can do without hatchback which most can, the $22k price draws you in. But, if you do any amount of city driving, you won't see 30 MPG average. I've been doing short trip after short trip in 2011 Pri, 5 minutes, 2 miles, over and over. Avg FE gone from little over 52 MPG to about 49.3 after all those trips.

Imagine getting bummed over only getting 48 MPGs

 

I call that the "flying bridge," and it was the reason I bought
a used, low mileage Gen 2 in 2010 instead of the then-brand
new Gen 3. I don't have your issue of crossing long legs; I didn't
like how it isolated you from the passenger. If Toyota had kept
the flying bridge in the Prius v, I would not have bought one,
but thankfully, they finally dumped it from their cockpit design!

I wonder how many Gen 3 sales the flying bridge has cost Toyota?

 

A friend has a Jetta/TDI, and I have ridden in it. If found
it to be quite a nice car, and it gets excellent mileage
(low 40s).

As you point out, the higher cost of fuel and maintenance
does negate some of the TDI's good mileage.

One other "gotcha" with diesel is that there is no
safeguard to prevent you from accidentally putting
regular unleaded gas into the gas tank. If you then
drive on that, it will ruin your diesel engine. Don't think
anyone would be so stupid and/or careless? My
friend did it this weekend.

 

I'd be so leery of buying a diesel because I would think you would always be worried about running out of gas in an area in which there are no diesel gas pumps. I know there are no diesel gas pumps near me, for example, and I'm in an exurban area. Wouldn't even know how to find a diesel station without driving around and looking. Maybe there are apps for that in Apple's App Store or the Android Market?