PIP Charging Costs

i believe that agree's with some numbers in another thread. .30 for 15 miles or $3.00 for 150 miles. not too tough to take!

 

May want to specify this is with or without all the surcharges.. My kwh rate is $0.105 per kwh.. ACTUAL cost after taxes (both state and city!), fuel surcharges, etc it comes out to $0.145 per kwh. So that takes my $1.35 per 40 mile cost to $1.87 per 40 miles. On your scale this would equate to approx. $7 per 150 miles.

You also must consider line losses, and such when you charge. The Volt's battery will only take 10.3kwh, but to actually charge it takes 12.9kwh. So you are looking at 21% lost from plug to battery. So using that same formula on the PiP would take 5.2kwh ($0.36 at your base rate) to charge. Before I had the Volt I thought it would be 1 for 1 as far as charging goes. You learn eventually that it takes more to charge than you can use. Also when the temps get cold (at least on the Volt anyway) slightly reduces the total amount you can use from the battery. The PiP may not have that problem, but all factors I think you should be aware of before purchasing.

In the end it certaintly is good cost wise no matter how you slice it. To drive my Prius to and from work would take about $1.65 where on average it costs me just under $1 to drive the Volt. Obviously where people are using an EV in place of far less efficient vehicles (trucks/SUV's come to mind) the savings will be HUGE.

 

what causes these line losses you speak of?

 

It comes in various forms. The length of the transmission lines from where your main panel is to where your charger is installed (or plug you are charging from with the 120V outlet).. Also the gauge of wire used to wire it up (smaller wire has greater resistance and generates more heat= power lost).. The 12.9kwh is just from the oulet, and through the charger to the car. Part of that is from resistance in the lines. The other key component is some is lost in the AC to DC converter for storage in the battery pack. There are various forumulas for figuring out from your actual power plant to your outlet. For me I just focus on what I am actually getting charged for.

The good news for PiP owners is that I do not think the PiP will have a battery conditioning system like the Volt does. To my knowledge the Volt and Tesla are the only 2 cars that use a liquid cooling system in the way that they do. In cold weather you will see an uptick in energy usage from the Volt due to it conditioning the battery (either heating or cooling depending on whether you are below 25F or over 115F).. The PiP should be air cooled, BUT the down side of that is that the car will suffer more in the temperature extremes from reduced range. On the upside you do not have to worry about coolant shorting out your battery and causing the car to burst in to flames 3 weeks after an accident. I would tell you that when you take deliver of your PiP to get a Kill-A-Watt meter to see its actual usage, but the Volt partially melted mine. So if you do use it depending on the amp draw (Volt draws 12 amps @ 120V for 10 hours) the PiP may also melt it. Just use it for 1 charge session to see what you use, and not over a period of 1-2 weeks like I did and you should be fine. You can also program your electric rate in, and it will give you your cost for how much electricity you have used.

Shop Choose Renewables Kill A Watt EZ at Lowes.com

 

shoot, i told my wife about 10 bucks a month! what if i upsize the wire to the outlet? i bet the 24' charging cable is a real loser.

 

If at all possible, it's a great time to go PV solar

 

you should definitely take into account any surcharges but not fixed costs.

I think the prius phv battery is only 3Kwh to charge according to toyota's website. That would include charging losses. If these are the same as the volt it would mean about a 2.5kwh SOC swing. Maybe its just the charged battery energy and this will be 3.65 to charge at the volts efficiency. It should definitely be less than 4kwh.

We will have to see if this is a good or bad thing when the cars get on the road. I think the trade off is really cost and weight, not efficiency.

 

agreed. still trying to talk my wife into letting me take down the 2 norway maples shading our entire roof. byt then, we have a cape with 2 doghouse dormers. not the most conducive roofline for mounting. so, we try to do it with conservation.

 

I plan on contiuing to back in and the cable that comes with the car should reach the one outlet I have on the back wall. I have several devices working off that outlet so I will disconnect all during charging. That outlet is also for my HVAC system so theoretically all this was taken into account when the house was built. Ha! Since I do not use the HVAC, the PIP will have sole use. I would say that anybody who thinks that they have to use an extension, make sure it is a thicker guage wire, like a RV cable extension. :cheer2:

 

It seems the general rule of thumb is to use 12 gauge or bigger as far as wires go. I personally use 10 gauge wiring (for the house).

I don't know much about the PiP. Seeing as we already had a Prius I wanted something more EV. If you are charging from solar that would be excellent as then that cancels out any bill issues they can throw at you. I have resisted disclosing to Dominion that I have a Volt. Granted I had to put it on the form I filled out through SPX I am sure they know. Is probably why I keep getting letters about their EV program: "Charge for $0.80 a day instead of $1.70!" Did not work out well for some folks in NC though, so now I am hesitant to get in on any EV "research" plans. See the thread below.. I strongly suggest that all us plug in types sit back and watch. In my mind there will probably be a lot of rangling about how to rip us off at the plug since they can no longer do it at the pump. Granted this is one instance, but it is enough to have given me pause to think twice about applying for these "EV" rates.

PG&E TRIPPLES OFF PEAK EV ELECTRICITY RATES from 4 cents to 11 cents a Kwh

 

the wire gauge and run length are a calculation based on amperage draw and etc. you should consult an electrician, engineer or at least some wiring tables. 10 gauge is unusually large for typical household 15 and 20 amp circuit breakers at 120v. but for the 240v charger and a run that long, you dont want to make a mistake. an electric dryer or stove can use 6 gauge wiring.

 

The odd thing is SPX (people who make GM's 240V charger) recommend 12 gauge. With all the fires and such going on I wanted a little bit of a safety margin in that department so it was decided upon to use 10 gauge as that would reduce heat build up compared to 12ga. Probably is overkill, but it does not even appear to get hotter than ambient even while charging. So for me it is a large improvement over the 120V portable charge cord.

I am only suggesting that you guys talk to an electrician about what is best for your solution. I know a lot of the chargers Volt guys have installed (including myself) the instructions call for a "minimum requirements" type of deal. While I would follow the circuit breaker recommendation to a T (as not doing so will void your warranty) I would ask the electrician about going 1 gauge larger on the wiring. For a 55ft run I would not even know where to begin. Some guys have been installing sub panels for longer runs like that, and attaching the chargers to a circuit on those.

$0.084 a kwh is a steal! I think if my electric rates were like that I would have bought a Leaf instead. Where I just moved from I was paying similar to what I am now at almost $0.15 a kwh. It still makes the Volt cheap to drive, but not much more cheaper than driving our Prius. Especially when gas is only $3.05 a gallon. It costs me approx $2.45 at that price to drive our Prius the same distance it costs to drive the Volt on $1.70~$1.90. I am real curious to see numbers on the PiP as it should bring driving costs down to parity with the Volt I would think. Especially since I am already in the same ball park with my regular full gas one.

 

Toyota's spec is 3 KWH. Cost for me $0.36.

$0.36 buys about 1/10th. gallon, good for 5 miles at 50 mpg.
The electric chage is good for 15 miles.
D.

 

gotta luv it!

 

saw a ryobi watt meter at home depot for 25 bucks, anybody try one?

 

the way i play golf, that's some serious mileage!