Volt Sales Figures

I found these when trying to dig up info for my earlier post...

Opel / Vauxhall Ampera on hold over Chevy Volt fire
Vauxhall Ampera launch

 

I think the media went way harder on Toyota.

But it did severe damage, if temporary. And exploding batteries will do devastating PR to the Volt as well. It doesn't matter if it's safer or not than gas, if these new fangled techno mumbo jumbo battery thingamabobs can explode I don't want one, gimme good ole gasoline. That's what people will say.

Really, though, even before this battery thing was on the news the Volt couldn't sell its way out of a paper bag. So many months of promises and failed sales. And GM won't keep a dead car driving in production for too long, nobody company afford to do it.

 

The Volt was an answer to a question which no one asked.

Not to mention it's not a particularly attractive design, in my opinion.

 

It took years, then the media exploded.

I think the toyota handling of the situation did the only serious long term damage. Hopefully they will learn from it. GM knows something about handling these things badly. I hope its lack of procedures and the media meltdown doesn't seriously damage plug-ins.

GM made a bad mistake killing the EV-1 even though it would have sold much worse than the volt. This is about trying to get a green halo to sell other cars. They can afford to sell the volt and the corvette. The numbers are 8700 leafs and 6100 volts in the us, so far in 2011. Nissan and GM will continue to sell these things, and would be harmed if they pulled them from the market. Nissan missed there number by more than gm, but admitted it much sooner.

I think the question was how do we transition away from gasoline. The volt is one possible step. Plug-ins are a long shot, but more SUVs are not the answer, and hybrid sales are not setting the world on fire.

November 2011 Dashboard: The Rebound Continues | Hybrid Cars

I hope the prius phv and rav4 bev are also part of this answer.

Some perspective from october -
http://www.green.autoblog.com/2011/10/10/nissan-leaf-sales-eclipse-15-000/

Italics are mine.

 

The question is, how do we transition away from gasoline, in a way that's palatable to the current market in terms of cost, utility and design. The Volt, unfortunately, falls into 'none of the above.'

 

I would call Prius & v sales as #8 of all cars (no trucks included) a small fire. People like Prius. It is unique, has no cheaper conventional equivalent, works very well. Still, they are a little expensive for the size. Unfortunately, this is how soo many people think - how much does it cost and how big is it? To them, bigger costs more, smaller should cost less...
but, Prius is so well positioned and with soon to be 4 pronged attack.

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Another note, '40 MPG' seems to be the benchmark for advertising conventional compacts. I think they figure if they can claim that figure, they're set. But, as we know, these compacts fall flat in the city (under 30) while Prius can climib to 55 MPG.

 

I concur.

What's interesting is the base model PiP is essentially a 2012 regular Prius Three with plug-in. Will be interesting to see regular Three is price. I'm guessing 5 to 6k less than PiP.

 

The Prius is a fairly good balance between value and fuel economy, the Volt isn't. When in comes to the plug in Prius, I don't think it would even come close to being cost effective for most people. I mean 6K for 15 miles of all electric range?

 

15 EV miles for the city. That means your most frequent short trips and weekend chores.

49 MPG hybrid mode is for the longer weekend drives. PHV battery will also boost the weekend MPG with 3kWh (3 hours with 120v plug) per charge. It won't be a garage queen for sure.

Volt takes 10 hours to recharge from 120v. You can deplete it in 15 mins at very high speed driving.

 

I don't want to make any generalizations about GM and Toyota customers, but perhaps the core customer bases of these two companies differs significantly.

Definitely. As far as mileage figures for traditional compacts in the city, my personal experience confirms this. In the city, my Fit drops to the low 30s during normal/faster driving, mid/high 30s if I milk it, but no more. And on the highway it won't get any better than the low 40s. Using the A/C also seems to be more of a mileage hit than in my GII Prius.

 

Let's say I'm driving 35 miles one way, Union City to Concord, CA. Most of that 65 MPH freeway.

Correct me if wrong. With PiP and Volt charged up, the ..

Volt will stay in EV or CD mode all the while on freeway. Good chance it will be depleted on arrival. No charging opportunity in Concord.

Will the Volt EV at all (like full hybrid) once the charge is depleted? Or does the engine only shut off when coasting?

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the PiP, will it do this - as I get on the freeway and maybe set the cruise at 67 MPH, won't the gas engine take over and preserve the EV range? ... So when I get to Concord, there might be some EV range left ? (about 2 miles city before freeway in both cities).

Volt will use up its EV range of highway ...

PiP will preserve EV range on highway by using gas engine.

Is this a key difference?

 

Or 4 minutes in a PiP, except you can't drive that fast in a PiP without the gas engine.

To deplete a Volt battery in 15 minutes I assume you would have to drive maybe 100 mph on a flat road? At 60 mph it would last around 43 minutes in my experience.

 

Ok, but how does Volt behave after depleted? Will it EV through a parking lot or low speeds, or does ICE only shut off in coasting and at stop?

 

6k for 15 miles? Over here it's £10,000/$15,600 extra for 15 miles! But then with the £5,000 EV grant applied reduces this. Unfortunately I think it was very apparant to the 'powers that be' that Toyota were abusing the Government scheme and they have quickly dropped the price from their literature and now just say that the exact cost will be decided at time of release


(£31,000 for a PIP or £34,000 for the Ampera - both before deduction of £5,000 EV grant)

 

From what I have read, in CS mode Volt's ICE shuts off only when battery SOC exceeds minimum level.
It means that even coasting or in a parking lot, ICE can be charging.
For a Prius owner, may sound a heresy, I know. For others that couldn't get caught dead in a Prius, it's the most formidable technology. Different points of view, aren't they?

 

In normal CS (charge sustaining mode), the ICE will run only as much as is needed to keep the state of charge of the battery at the depleted level (something like 30%). It will still regen from braking or slowing down, so that energy will raise the SoC and the ICE will turn off until it is needed again.

This is normal operation for most any hybrid and the same way the PiP will work.

Should note that even while it is running on electric during CS mode with the ICE off, those are tracked as gas miles (would probably be more accurate to say hybrid miles). The idea being the electricity you are using at that point is not grid power but recaptured electricity generated from gasoline burned (such as the gas to accelerate or climb the hill).

 

An engine designed for a narrow or even single output can be a lot more efficient than one with the wide output found in cars, hybrids included. GM, in order the satisfy customer desires, went with a wider output in the production Volt, and fuel efficiency was the cost.

Toyota's design goals with the Prius PHV are the more logical and reasonable goals. The issue is people aren't rational. While more are willing to try a hybrid, many still have irrational, um, concerns over being stranding or just what ifs when they might have a need to exceed the EVs range. GM grokked this. The Volt elevates those concerns while showing the public the benefits of an EV. Toyota's P-PHV is just a Prius with a now available factory plug in option.

The hybrid Accord's goal was to show hybrids don't have to be pure, bland fuel misers. It didn't stick around long, and the Volt might not either, because the only hybrid buyers at the time wanted a fuel miser. But how Lexus hybrids are now power hybrids?

 

3 hours for PiP.

Volt's EV high speed driving without the gas engine is supposed to be the "selling point"? I am saying you can do that but the battery will run out really fast.

 

I would prefer a car that does more EV at lower speeds, maybe 45 MPH and under which covers most suburbia non-freeway. I'm ok with a car that uses gas on highway at 50 MPH and more, because, well, to go far (100+ miles) on highway in a cost effective car, it takes gasoline.

So, if I had PiP all charged up, it would do EV for 2 miles to freeway, ICE for 30 miles on freeway, then use 4 miles EV range in and out of Concord, 30 miles ICE on freeway back home and still have enough EV range off the freeway to EV into the garage, um, right?

 

And I have this;

Chevy Volt fire investigation: no delay to UK launch


Which shows that there will be NO delay in the launch of the Ampera/Volt here in the UK. The car gets a 5 star NCAP accident rating. Obviously the fires are an issue that needs correction in the same way a petrol tank rupturing would, but it's not the end of the world as some make out.