240v Home Charger

it would probably be a big selling feature on the west coast.

 

Wow gang, lots of good stuff in this thread. Here are my two cents:
Yes, the Plug-in comes with (1) standard 120V charge cable and an onboard charger to work with the 120V. I’ll try to get the price of a replacement cordset, though I will tell you, they are not cheap. I plan to just keep mine in the cargo area if I find myself charging at work or out and about….if I end up only really charging at night, then it’ll end up living at home. That is, unless I decide to go for the 240V (I’m very on the fence—like Mark, when I spent considerable time in the car, I really liked the idea of charging more frequently on the weekends so I could make it all weekend in EV mode).

I applaud all of you that are DIYers but boy this is one I would not mess with personally due to the safety issues and complexity involved. The $999 basic install plus EVSE from Leviton is actually a best in industry price (last time I checked) so while it may seem expensive, and only a small % will want a 240V for a Prius Plug-in, it’s actually a solid package price for many. The other thing to keep in mind is that while there is a standard for the connectors, there is no guarantee that the communication between the EVSE and the vehicle will work properly. Leviton’s product has been thoroughly tested since they are our approved provider, but it is quite possible that other EVSEs may not work properly with the PiP.

Any major questions I left unanswered?


Best,
Erica Gartsbeyn
Prius Product Manager
Toyota USA

 

I wish I could find the threads on these on mynissanleaf.com... I recall seeing a bunch of Leafers saying they just leave the L1 EVSE brick (that the Leaf comes) with at home. They had some range anxiety at first but don't bother bringing it anymore.

Keep in mind, this is with people who have longer EV range than the PiP but no backup generator whatsoever. I think that part of it is that charging a Leaf at L1 is so slow that one would have to possibly wait a long time to get enough juice in the battery if stuck far from home. (IIRC, 1 hour on L1 = 4 to 5 miles is the figure I hear.)

I know someone (might have been Ingineer aka pEEf here) expressed concerns about the # of cycles on the plug (I believe on the 120 volt outlet, definitely not the J1772 end) if plugged in and unplugged daily, thus it was best to leave the 120 volt EVSE at home and plugged in, despite its phantom (idle) power draw.

 

Erica, this comment is pure FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). The entire purpose of the J-1772 standard is so ANY EV can use any standard J-1772 EVSE, implying anything else shows a lack of understanding on your part. Please do not spread FUD, there's plenty around already. Thanks.

 

example of previous Chevy Volt EVSE compat problem

Although I partly agree, there was the case of the Chevy Volt at first not working w/pEEF's EVSE upgrade.

From My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Fast Low Cost Charging - All EVSE Questions Answered!

My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Upgrade your stock Nissan L1 EVSE to 240 volt for $200 !! mentions $50.

Then, I just discovered, this was fixed on the Volt w/a firmware upgrade so there shouldn't be a need for the above. From EVSE Upgrade - Products

There was even a case of a J1772 plug getting stuck in a Leaf. See Battery, Charging System - MyNissanLeaf which leads to My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - This J Connector Immobilized my LEAF.

 

I appreciate having someone from Toyota participate here. I don't want you to feel "beat up" by us, because we really appreciate having you here.

That said, this "installation" is no different than installing an outlet for an electric clothes dryer or electric stove. It only requires a standard 120V or 240V (clothes dryer-type) electrical outlet. Total parts cost is less than $50 for a new circuit breaker, weatherized outlet, and wire. The EVSE just plugs into a standard outlet, just like a lamp does. It's no big deal.

It's outrageously expensive. Any licensed electrician in your town can quote you the cost of installing a standard 120V or 240V outlet anywhere in your home. If your circuit breaker panel is close to where you want the outlet (and panels are often next to or inside garages), then installation of the outlet will cost about $150. And you plug the EVSE into the outlet, and that's all there is to it. There are a lot of homeowners who do this themselves. I know you can't tell people how easy it is, but it's pretty easy. The hard part is snaking the cable through walls. If you look at Leviton's installation video on YouTube, you can see that anyone can easily "install" the EVSE once they have a 240V outlet ready.

Again, I appreciate that you're participating, but the EVSE is nothing but a switch, like a light switch, with a very simple digital circuit that determines if it's safe to flip the switch. But, granted, if I were in your position, I wouldn't be able to blindly bless products sight unseen.

Yes. We want to know the maximum input amperage supported by the PIP at 240V. Right now, Toyota only lists 120V 15A and 240V 15A as supported, which give 180 and 90 minute charge times. The Nissan Leaf can support 240V at 70 amperes, which is a LOT. A PiP with this kind of power input would fully charge in about 20 minutes. Can you please find out the maximum allowable charging amperage at 240V? A lot of us are going to install dedicated 240V outlets, and we may as well be prepared with the highest supported amperage.

 

This article from 11/7 about a 240v Siemens charger installed by Duke Energy suspected in a major house fire:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...mers-to-suspend-use-of-electric-car-chargers/

I hope the testing of the Leviton product included potential user errors, circuit wiring errors, brownouts and lightning strikes.

 

It's all about cost. It likely has the same size 3.3KW onboard charger that comes with the 2011 + 2012 Leafs. That limits the charging to 16A @ 240V. Chargers are expensive, the only EV's currently scheduled for larger onboard chargers are the Ford Focus EV (6.6KW), and of course the Tesla's have larger onboard chargers. The Leaf has a DC input connector using the Chademo Japanese standard, but the DC fast chargers are very scarce and expensive, there are only a handfull deployed in the entire US.

 

Thanks, but Leviton isn't the last word on this, Toyota is. The amperage limit is dictated by the design of the charger inside the PiP, not by Leviton.

EDIT: Super-fast charging reduced battery life. Not interested in that.

 

we already have the answer:

4.4KW pack / charges in 1.5 hours at 240VAC, with about %20 losses, you are looking at a 3.3KW onboard charger, same as the current generation Nissan Leaf.

 

I'm the last person on this forum who'd have any interest in spreading any FUD so let's not jump to conclusions yet.

Thanks, I can take it...

Just to be clear, I specifically gave all of the DIYers credit for taking this on, but I intentionally used the word personally in my response when saying I would not want to mess with this particular installation.

A crucial part of any EVSE is an analog communication device, so it's more than just a switch.

While the SAE J1772 standardized the physical connection between the EVSE and the vehicle, it did not standardize the communication interface aspects of the EVSE. Currently, there's no standard, defined EVSE communication interface test. This means EVSE and vehicle compatibility are determined on a case by case basis, for all manufactures. And given the emerging nature of Plug-in/EV technology and EVSE, there are some known interface compatibility concerns among both vehicle and EVSE manufactures. We're all working to alleviate these concerns as everyone's ultimate goal is to get PiPs on the road, charged and ready to go.

In our case, Toyota has performed extensive PiP compatibility testing with the Leviton EVSE. The Leviton product is the only EVSE that we can guarantee will communicate properly, in all scenarios, with our PiP.

For Plug-in Prius, Level 1 (120VAC) current is 12A (15A service breaker) and the Level 2 (240V) rated current is 16A (20A service breaker), for about ~3.7kW max. Those considering a full electric vehicle may want more Amperage.

Hope that clears a few of my statements and your understanding of the "standards" up so you don't think I'm making this up or misinforming you. There's a highly skilled technical team dedicated to our EVSE project so I assure you, we've done our homework.

Best,
Erica Gartsbeyn
Prius Product Manager
Toyota Motor Sales

 

Hi. just want to jump in here to correct this.. The LEAF (2011, 2012) will support a maximum of 16A at 240V (3.3kW (ok it's probably 3.8kW at the charger input, 3.3kW to the battery)).

source quote:

from 3.3 kW onboard charger

 

No, there's even a second connector that can accept 480 Volts at 125 amps.

 

Yes, but you said 240 Volts in your previous statement. That would be the SAE J1772-2010 connector, not the CHADEMO (which is an option on 2011 SL and standard on 2012 SL).


also, I'd like to chime in (again, perhaps) to say that $999 for a 16A EVSE installed actually does seem like the best price right now. I paid about $100 more than that for my EVSE, but will get my 30% tax credit this year and have a 30A capability for future growth.

My real remaining question is whether Toyota/Leviton will have a cheaper price for those of us who are literally plug and play (three wire 20A-capable wiring/circuit in place).

 

Essaunders is correct about CHAdeMO Association and on which years and trim levels the port is standard or available on. It's not available on the lower trim of the Leaf, the SV. In the case of CHAdeMO, IIRC, the charger is NOT onboard the car, unlike J1772.

I can't speak to the amperage though.

I'm 95% sure that CHAdeMO is what enabled this: Video: Dutch duo drives Nissan Leaf 779.2 miles in... 24 hours.

 

Nissan's site says you should have a dedicated 208~240V, 40 amp circuit. (40 amps... Dang!)

But Prius has a much smaller battery, and the car can operate on a dead battery. I read that using the 480V charge on Leaf eventually reduces battery life. Since a 15A 110V full PiP charge takes only 3 hours, I think the real question is what amperage/voltage provides the best battery longevity.

 

While Nissan may recommend a 30A EVSE, their car can't use that full potential (yet.. higher power chargers may be expected in future model years).

I think all this worry about chargers is overblown. If you make multiple trips in your PiP each day then the 240V charger may have value. If not, use the 120V that comes with the car. The charger (in the car) will work with the battery management hardware/software to protect the battery. All the EVSE does is provide idiot protection, common physical interface, and advertise how much power an EV may pull (note, the J1772-2010 spec doesn't provision for enforcement of current limits - that'll likely be up to the circuit breakers!)
I suspect that the PiP will actually spend more time than a pure EV "empty" but given the relative conservatism evident in the standard Prius battery management we probably don't need to worry about that. I just hope Toyota chose a lithium chemistry that doesn't age too badly.

I wouldn't plan on plugging and unplugging my 120V unit every day - if you do that plan on replacing the outlet occasionally and maybe even the EVSE. But perhaps Toyota will have a reasonable price on that unit - you could just buy a second to leave in your garage.

 

with a 14 mile commute (7 each way) i expect to plug in 5 nites a week. you dont think the hardware is up to that?

 

I don't think there'd be any problem on the J1772 end but the wall outlet might need changing if you unplug/plug too many times, esp. if it starts to get hot. If you leave it plugged in all the time to reduce cycles, it'll start to lose tension and start to get hot under heavy loads.