Couple Q's about Prius Plug-in

Summary:
From: Wikipedia
>Proximity Detection - Prevents movement of the car while connected to the charger.
>Control Pilot - Communication line used to coordinate charging level between the car and the charger as well as other information.

Also...
It is desirable to have the car "turn on" while connected to allow for pre-cooling, pre-heating, defrosting, etc before the owner drives away. As I understand, the PIP does allow for the car to be "turned on" while connected. I'm not sure if they prevent the engine from running while connected (IIRC, I think it's suggested from what I read). In an enclosed attached garage, you don't want the engine running.




More details:
I don't have the J1772 spec with me right now. So I can't say if 100% now what the J1772 spec requires, suggests, etc. And, of course, this is assuming that a scanner is not connected and the car is not put in service mode.

Also, Toyota seems to be initially targeting the PIP for Mid and Southern Calf. One example is that the prototype allows for pre-coolingm but as I've read, the PIP does not currently support pre-heating.

For me, there is no ************* way I'm spending $40K+ for a POS car that I can't pre-warm in the winter. So, my guess is that I'll have to wait for ~2013 for Toyota to add that feature to the PIP. Note that the PIP/Prius require a special remote starter. IMHO, *I* only trust the Toyota remote starter for a Prius.


I live in New England. Heck, I pre-heat my cars now! Sorry, *I* don't have any desire to sit in a cold car, to have to deal with window fogging.

Like many people, I have a detached garage. So, I'm not about to put my car in/out of the garage. It goes in the garage only for big snow storms. Therefore, I also don't like/want the the J1772 connector sitting on the side of my car. My neighbors have kids, and they are allowed in my yard (a benefit to me since I sometimes travel for work or work late, and they are like a free security guard service ). So, even more reason not to have something sticking out the side of an EV that can easily be broken/knocked by kids (mainly during the weekend).

I'm an electrical/computer engineer. It's "very simple" to put a J1772 charger in the cubby hole in the PIP, bring the AC plug out to the bumper, add some "simple" custom circuitry, and have the PIP charge from either the J1772 port on the side or from a 110V plug in the bumper (connected to an added in internal J1772 charger).

I do worry about violating the warranty though. :-P It's not hard to do if I do wire cuts and splices. But, that likely violates the warranty. Also, it's easier if I can get the hall sensor that Toyota uses for the J1772. So, that again points to me waiting until ~2014.

Note: I am a professional, so don't try this at home. I have my MS in Engineering, I've been a Principal Engineer for over a dozen years, and I work for an FFRDC. So, I know about making hi-reliability and very safe circuits. I'm not looking to make it cheap. I figure ~$2K+ for my mod.

I'm not looking to sell anything I do. I don't have any desire to "spend my life" trying to do support for people doing installs or dealing with people screwing up installs and making nasty threads. I have a friend that does that. Also, avoiding COI (Conflicts of Interests) while working for an FFRDC is not simple for any other job/income/etc.

My guess is that someone else will either do or offer something similar by 2014. If not, I'll gladly upload all of my schematics and what I did.

Of course, the above is assuming that Toyota puts in the pre-heat remote start option in the 2013 PIP model.

 

Off hand, I don't see why that would be a problem?
I'm guessing this is for an apartment environment? In that case, I'd worry far more about someone stealing the ~$1K J1772 charger than someone "stealing my electricity" to charge their EV.

On of the options for a J1772 charger is to have communications ability to the building. But, that's in the very high end and high power units, and mainly to help with electrical load on the grid.


Also, the PIP has a short charge time. So, even if someone does move the charger, it shouldn't have a big impact. Of course, that's assuming that someone isn't using the remote start to pre-cool or pre-heat the PIP while it's plugged into the charger.

 

That's a simple matter of the PiP seeing the EVSE plugged in. Once the PiP sees a connection to the EVSE, then the Pip allows no shifting out of 'P' ... and/or no brake release. Just to PROVE you can be stupid, I've started both the Pip & the Leaf up 1st ... then shifted to 'N' ... and THEN plugged in. Viola! Now I'm an official disaster waiting to happen. See they can build it fool proof, but not idiot proof

It does on the Leaf - which receives its signal via a cel phone #. Or, you can have your smart phone send a notification by email that it's unplugged (or charge is finished - or that you forgot to plug it in) Each manufacturer I'm sure has some similar method ... whether it's safety connect, OnStar, or Carwings. The Volt system is the most aversive. For example, if a Volt is at the airport taking up a charge station (which it may only need for an hour or 2 ... actually it DOESN"T even need it because it can run on gas) and then the owner flies away for a couple weeks... and then, an EV pulls in next to the charge station (because an electric car MUST be recharged - ie no gas engine) maybe the EV arrives at the airport a day or 2 after the Volt guy flies out . . . . don't EVEN think of unplugging the Volt ... or its alarm will go off. Prior to the Volt's being manufactured, many folks would simply leave a courtesy charging protocol placard on their car when using public charging - stating when it'd be ok to unplug it. That way, no one got stranded. So much for courtesy, and kind/informal working plans.

 

Hmm, as I recall, the J1772 requires that the EV disable the drive modes. But, I don't remember it stating anything about requiring the EV to go into park, or not be able to move, if the charger is plugged in.

If you have the car in Drive, then plug in the charger, the EV should disable it's drive mode. But, I could see that the car could still roll.

I could see many issues if J1772 required the EV to not move once the charger was plugged in (even if the car was previously in D mode and maybe moving). How do you fully stop the car (would require ability to apply brakes) so the car can go into P?

Since my driveway isn't 100% level, I could see the PIP rolling if I did what you did.
If the car rolls with the charger plugged in, that could damage the charge port on the PIP, scratch the body, damage the body panel area, etc. In other words - badness. That is something for people to consider if they have young kids that run around the car/garage.

FWIW: When the charger is not connected to the car, nor communicating with the car (there's a protocol), as required by J1772, there is no voltage at the charger plug.


That's also why I'm planning on disabling the power to my custom dedicated 110V charging cord that would plug into the PIP bumper if the plug is pulled out. Again, not hard to do for an electrical engineer. I'd have a button to "enable the power" inside the house (and also disable). If the plug was pulled out, then the circuit would disable the 110V to the dedicated charger cord.

I don't want to have the cord short out to any water on the ground (yea, a GFI is required anyways), or have a potential hazard for any kids or dogs (if the cord was left live).

Did I mention what a PITA EVs are for people that don't have attached garages?

 

I live in a cold climate too, so I understand your frustration. I think that the prototype models allowed for preheating and I haven't read anywhere why Toyota took them out. I wonder if there was some kind of a concern for safety.

The difference, for me, is that the car DOES have heated seats. This could make up for the inability to preheat the car (except for the defrosting). I have never owned a vehicle with heated seats before, so this will be a nice upgrade for me.

I don't have the luxury to wait until 2013 (like you) or whenever Toyota decides to add back the preheating option. My car is dying and I may be lucky if it lasts until my PiP arrives (assuming I even am one of the lucky ones to get the order through right away to secure a car).

 

I like the idea of a charge port inside the hatch area. I'm not looking forward to unplugging after a night of sleet and snow. We measure snow by the foot around Buffalo, but even a 1/4 inch of ice could be a problem.
It's hard enough to break wipers and fuel doors free. I've been using a small 1500w space heater in the car for years with no problem, guess I'll need two cords to the PIP.

 

Sure would have nice if that feature would not have been cut!

 

What is that for?

 

Dreading something like this? Yeah, that's a PiP prototype under there. And plugged in, no less.