Go vegitarian.. reduce AGW.. save the planet

...can't believe I am not following this thread. Gaso and NZ -- lived there once -- are two of my favorite topics. Cyclo is correct, re: above.

Monty is on the right track. Probably buying a Prius + diet is better than EV for eco-system. In fact, probably SUV + good diet does the trick. Not sure, must do some calcs. Of course, Leaf owners on a crash diet are the best. No contest.

 

Small addition

 

To begin with, a disclaimer: I was a strict ovo-lacto-vegetarian for roughly three decades, until I began eating fish to help reduce my cholesterol. My original motive was purely ethical, but somewhere in those three decades I shed all my principles. Now I eat no meat or fowl, but I do eat fish and shellfish, though very seldom the latter.

I couldn't care less what you eat. At my age, and with no kids to give me any concerns for the future, your lifestyle is not going to affect the world during the time frame I have left.

BUT:

I cannot help but notice that, faced with the clear and indisputable facts that reducing your meat consumption will lead to an improvement in your own health, and will greatly reduce your carbon footprint; and that eliminating meat will improve your health even more, and reduce your carbon footprint further, the reaction of so many meat eaters is to respond with "jokes" about murdering vegetarians. A perfectly acceptable response from these people would be to say that they don't care about their own health or their carbon footprint. A know-nothing response would be to say (like AGW deniers and creationists) that they do not believe the science. But primarily, the response in this thread is to "joke" about murdering people who choose to eat in a more healthy manner with a reduced environmental impact. I'm not sure what to make of this, other than to say that many meat eaters (not all by any means, but many) are extremely disturbed individuals, and perhaps anti-social as well.

Personally, as a cynic and a misanthrope, I don't much care. By the time I'd been a vegetarian for 3 or 4 years, the very idea of eating dead animal parts disgusted me. And as someone who had previously eaten extremely large amounts of meat (mostly beef, chicken, and pork, with the occasional lamb chops) and then quit, I can tell you that the pleasure I get from eating vegetables is just as great as the pleasure I ever got from eating meat. This is not a question of tasty vs. dull, pleasure vs. boredom. This is purely a matter of choice. If you choose to adopt a particular diet, whether it be animals, vegetables, or bugs, you will develop a taste for it and will come to enjoy it.

And, as a cynic and a misanthrope, I make lots of lifestyle choices which increase my carbon footprint. (Living in a larger house than I really need and traveling by commercial airline are probably my biggest offenses to the environment.) But I admit it. So I say to the meat-eaters: Just admit that you choose a diet which is unhealthy for you and environmentally unsustainable because you don't give a damn about your health or your carbon footprint, and stop making stupid jokes about killing vegetarians. The "jokes" are not funny, and in my book, making jokes that are not funny is a worse offense than living an unsustainable lifestyle.

And as for the stupid argument that "god designed us to eat meat":

Well, if you are a Bible literalist, god designed humans to be vegetarians, but Satan tricked them into rebellion, bringing death into the world, and making it possible for humans (as well as dogs, cats big and small, alligators, etc.) to eat meat.

The god argument is inadmissible both because there's no evidence for god, and because humans are, in fact, opportunistic eaters, capable of eating pretty much anything, and we have a brain which allows us to make choices about what we eat. If god did design us, he designed us to be able to choose.

 

I am not sure what kind of 'arian I am (since like Daniel, I could not care less.) but I do not eat animals or eggs. I do LOVE food though. The plant variety is almost inexhaustible, and one can rarely have too much spice or pepper

There is no doubt I am personally much healthier for my lifestyle choice, I do not add my hand to torture, and I am happy to minimize my enviro footprint. Oddly, my wife and her sister became 'vegetarians' this year. Mostly animal ethics, and some personal health motivations.

 

The assumption that a meat-heavy diet is inherently unhealthy is simply wrong. The traditional Inuit diet is mostly animal protein and fat, and they were very healthy before modern eating habits crept in.

 

And they lived to be about 42 if they were lucky. Which is why they had no heart disease from all that fat: Not enough time. And of course they ate all the internal organs, so they got some vitamins.

 

Cite please.

Many people confuse a life expectancy of 42 with a life span of 42.

 

Deniers of scientific (evidence-based) medicine love to claim that ancient or tribal peoples were wonderfully healthy eating "primitive" diets or using "traditional" medicines. But the fact is that ancient and tribal peoples had relatively short lifespans.

 

Which in and of itself is not an indication of diet related health issues. These primitive people lacked modern medicine and sanitation, and often engaged in war-like activities. All of these negative factors need to be removed before life expectancy data reveals anything about diet.

Tom

 

And they ate a largely plant-based diet. Big-game hunting came later. And what little meat they did get was extremely low in fat.

Today's corn-based meat industry produces a disastrously unhealthy food, and does it with catastrophic environmental consequences. A far cry from catching a half-starved rabbit once a month or so in a world with maybe a million people on the entire planet.

 

Life expectancy at birth in the US was 63.6 for 1939-1941, not 43.

 

All this concern about what worked in the past ignores many of our current dangers. Prehistoric man didn't have to cope with BPA, pesticides, ozone holes, artificial radiation, hormone fed cattle, refined sugar, etc.

If you want to live a long time these days, you'll have to solve the current problems. That means managing a wide array of modern toxins, including older toxins that are now quickly distributed worldwide, rather than remaining isolated.

I agree that eating a plant source diet, raised in high nutrient soils, and consumed while still fresh is a major head start. But I also see major benefits in taking targeted antioxidants like ACF228 and telomerase activators like TA65. There might even be a vaccine that improves matters, although most are witch's brews with more toxic effects than protections. Neo40 is a product that supports nitric oxide production in older people. If you eat bushels of kale and beets daily, then you may already have healthy arteries.

 

Oi

 

To top off your Omega-3 DHA...

 

In the 10 days I was in Maui, I could not find a single Coconut Cream can/bottled that was 100% genuine. I would have accept GUAR gum in the ingredients.
Nearly everything was pure HFCS with artifical and natural coco.

Only in can form, coconut milk, 100% pure.

At least I was able to find plenty of pineapples, Maui Gold, hand picked ripe.

 

Here is some data:
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy"]Life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Interesting to note:
Era Life Expectancy at Birth(years) Comment
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic"]Upper Paleolithic[/ame] 33 At age 15, life expectancy an additional 39 years (total age 54).[8][9]
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic"]Neolithic[/ame][10] 20
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age"]Bronze Age[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age"]Iron Age[/ame][11] 26
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Greece"]Classical Greece[/ame][12] 28
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Rome"]Classical Rome[/ame][12] 28 At age 15, life expectancy an additional 37 years (total age 52).
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas"]Pre-Columbian North America[/ame][13] 25-30
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate"]Medieval Islamic Caliphate[/ame][14] 35+
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_in_the_Middle_Ages"]Medieval Britain[/ame][15][16] 30 At age 21, life expectancy an additional 43 years (total age 64).[17]
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Modern_Britain"]Early Modern Britain[/ame][11][18] 25-40
Early 20th Century[19][20] 31
Current world average[21] 67.2 2010 est.

So basically, Upper paleolithic (stone age) man lived longer than most of his descendants, up until mid 20th century.

Also:

• 1200-1300 A.D.: 43 years (to age 64)
• 1300-1400 A.D.: 24 years (to age 45) (due to the impact of the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death"]Black Death[/ame])
• 1400-1500 A.D.: 48 years (to age 69)
• 1500-1550 A.D.: 50 years (to age 71).

So, if you are an adult male and well off, your life span hasn't changed much.

 

In terms of life tables, the early human years can be real killers. Especially with widely varying food supply and w/o access to adequate medical care. Run that gauntlet successfully, and emerge the other end without any debilitating conditions, and as an adult you can weather some pretty lean times. I suppose this contributed a lot to those old-aged paleolithic folks. They lived at rather low population density, which probably limited the bottoms of periodic (low) food availability.

Later experiments with 'high-density living" were, according to Corwyn's demographic information, were not spectacular successes (based on this measure of success). That nut was cracked with modern medicine and energy technology.

I'll never argue that the previous two were anything other than spectacular successes for the 20th century. But those successes are not assured to continue this century, with a few billions more people, looking for a higher (material) quality of life, and some impending limitations on resource availability.

The grand experiment is underway. You can't opt out of participating here on earth You can modify your own activties, and that is what this thread (and actually PC in general) is all about.

 

That's all very well, but can a mod correct the spelling in the thread title?