For those that plug in now ....

It depends. Some are free, others charge you and make you use one of their cards (e.g. ChargePoint Network). My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Public charge station lists and My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Where are the charging stations? are good starting points that I know of to find charging stations in your area. Some workplaces (e.g. Google) have charging stations for their employees.

Nissan Leaf Forum - Online forum for the Nissan Leaf Electric Car is probably one of the better places to dig for info and discussion on charging.

 

I don't have places I can plug in away from home. Spokane has 2 or 3 public charge points, but they are 110 v 15 a which is pretty useless. For 4 years I drove the 40-mile Zap Xebra (aftermarket battery pack with double the OEM range). If I had to go farther than 35 miles I drove the Prius.

Now, with 245 miles of range, I never need to plug in away from home because I'm NEVER going to drive that far in a day unless it's a road trip, and for that I'd want the cargo space and comfort of the Prius rather than the Roadster.

 

All states are evenutally planned to be rolled out . . . but some are farther off than others. Montana too, is one of the last states to get the Leaf. Then again, you can buy out of state. Many do.

As far as 'pay-stations' . . . that's a variable too. Many are free, and some charge. Some that are free now, plant to convert to pay possibly down the road. Some that are free, are in 'pay-lots' ... so you have to pay for the time you're in the pay lot.

The pay spots have a little card that can be hooked up to a credit card account, or to a debit card account. They look like this:



They have mini cards too. You tap 'em against the charger, and it activates the charger, unlocking it from the stand.

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One could question whether even public level 2 charging stations are really of any use unless one is charging for many hours like while at work or a very long shopping trip/errands/stop. I'd tend to agree that public level 1 and 2 charging is of limited use.

Level 1 (120 volts) is really too slow unless there's total emergency and you just need a few miles more to get to your destination. Level 2 is better, I've seen figures like 14 miles per hour of charging (My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Does the winter package work with L1 charging?) or 1 mile for every 5 minutes of charging (My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Is your Leaf your only car?). Would this really be of use? If one is attempting say a 300+ mile road trip on Leaf, surely this is insufficient due to the amount of charging time needed.

Level 3/DC fast charging is a lot quicker (30 minutes to go from 0 to 80%). This is MUCH better but still requires a lot more stopping time than an ICE car. It did enable Video: Dutch duo drives Nissan Leaf 779.2 miles in... 24 hours but sadly, there are very few DC quick chargers in the US. For the Leaf, one has to buy the SL trim and pay the ~$700 extra for the QC port. It'll be standard on the 2012 SL but Nissan raised prices on both trim levels of the 2012, partly by forcing some features on buyers.

There was a thread on L2 charging at My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Do we really need level 2 public charging?.

 

Say an average car runs 50 miles on a work-day, and L1 charging can supply a modest 15 miles of opportunistic charging. I see nothing wrong with a 30% oil imports decrease.

I know this calc is a greatly over-simplified description, but I think we have to move away from "can the charger system support state-to-state- drives", and remember that a huge amount of US petrol use is commuter consumption.

 

1) SL trim is all there is now.
2) During 9hr work day (includes lunch) the Leaf gets about half a charge on 120V. for me, that's 50 miles. That means anyone within 40 miles of work can go EV.
. . . . . . . so, if you're 20 - 40 miles from work, for 9 hours, and you get enough juice to get you back home, how is that "really slow". Better question is, "how does a L1 - 120V charge, pulling maybe 10 amps a strain on existing infrastructure?".
3) Public Chargers: Downtown L.A. for example, has 10 closely located towers - ranging from over 50 stoires to over 70 stories. Each building is multi use - just like down town Chicago, New York, etc. With public charging you may have 4, 5, or 10 or more charge stations ... all running on existing infrastructure. If you're 20 to 40 miles from work, you can get enough juice to get you home ... from PUBLIC charging, even if you're there only 3 hours.

. . . . . or am I missing something.

 

Really? I thought SV was still available. It's still listed for 2012 at Nissan Leaf Electric Car: 100% electric. Zero gas. Zero tailpipe..

As for #2, this is why I said:

Assuming that downtown LA works for you, that's lucky for you. If I put in 95120 at Alternative Fuels and Advanced Vehicles Data Center: Alternative Fueling Station Locator and select electric, there are very few publicly accessible EV charging stations. If I put in 94043, where I used to work, there's nothing that's of any use for my former commute.

 

There are multiple data bases for L1, L2, & L3 charging and sadly, they don't necessarily talk to each other, due to different manufacturing, etc. However SOME can be reserved, if the worry is they'll all be occupied when you get there. But the fact that there are still few (even as infrastructure is being built out), is hardly a reason to claim public charging is a bad idea. When we say 'public' that's another word for commercial, in most instances. When ICE cars were in the early stages, did folks say, "public fuel stations are a bad idea because there are few of them" ??

 

Keep in mind, folks, that this is an emerging sector. I'm only aware of two production EVs available today (Leaf and Tesla Roadster) plus a very small number of used RAV4EVs that come up for sale from time to time, and a few NEVs, plus the Volt and Prius PHEVs. More look to be coming soon, but are not yet on the market in the U.S. There are as yet very few of these cars on the road, meaning insufficient demand to fuel (pardon the pun) commercial installation of public charge points.

Standards are still up in the air and the infant stage of the industry is likely to give rise to innovations that are as yet unknown, which may completely change the demand picture. Improvements in battery cost and capacity could render low-power charge points useless.

It's a chicken and egg thing, and as early adopters we are stepping in to a less-than-ideal landscape. The more EVs there are, the more incentive there will be for merchants to install charge points, either to sell the electricity, or to draw customers in. But many shortsighted people won't buy an EV until there are charge points. Here in Spokane, there is effectively no place for me to charge but at home. But even with the 40-mile Xebra, I was able to do 95% of my city driving without gas, and now I only use gas for road trips or if I'm going to park at the airport because I don't want to leave the Roadster in a public parking garage for 2 weeks at a time.

Many people who have 2 cars (as most families do) will never need a public charge point. Only those who have exceptionally long commutes, or who want to take road trips in an EV will need it. And when EVs have a 500-mile range, the need will shift from highway-based and work-based charging, to overnight charging at hotels.

 

Well, it seems like the industry has settled on J1772 for level 1 and 2 charging given SAE J1772 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

DC quick charging is up in the air with [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAdeMO"]CHAdeMO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] vs. whatever I hear the SAE is trying to do. I don't follow the news on that much but there are threads on mynissanleaf.com about it. It will be really unfortunate if DC quick charging ends up getting nowhere due to the squabbles. (Apparently, there are a ton in Japan per http://www.chademo.com/.) Perhaps Nissan move of forcing the CHAdeMO port to be standard on the SL trim will give them and others more ammo for getting people to standardize on that (due to installed base) and give up on the alternatives.

Yep, for many people, there really is little or no use for public L1 or L2 charging stations other than the stopping for a long time (many hours) scenario or emergencies that I mentioned earlier.

If I had a limited range EV like a Leaf and a gasser and needed to do a long road trip to say Los Angeles (>300 miles, one way), I'm certainly not going to bother w/taking the Leaf. I'd need to stop every 50-70 miles or so, given the typical driving speeds on I-5 or highway 99. There aren't even sufficient L2 charging stations on the way, let alone L3/DC quick charge (there are none, AFAIK). It'll take me ~6 hours in my Prius vs. who knows how long in a Leaf.

 

Don't feel too bad. When it comes to EV's and PHV's, there's plenty of stupidity going around. Our condo complex carports are being replaced and I suggested that we run 220 to them to support charging. Our president actually said he didn't see the point, nobody in the complex has electric cars*!! Ummm, could that perhaps have something to do with the impossibility of charging here???? Plus of course the fact that EV's and PHV's are just now becoming widely available???

* - actually we have one: my 92? YO neighbor has had an electric tricycle for about 8 years. She uses it for a lot of her local shopping, up to about 7 miles each way! It has gone through several sets of lead acid batteries. She got special permission to recharge it through the lighting circuit in the present carports, which probably would not support the added load for a real EV or PHV. For longer trips she uses her minivan.

 

I believe this is one big reason malls are installing charge points. They figure that you'll shop the mall rather than just sit while your EV/PHV is charging. And maybe it will draw you to the mall in the first place.

 

Most charge stations are available at no cost. As stations come out of the DOE grant period I expect this to change at some sites. 99% of stations will charge by time used, flat rate, or via an already existing fee.

For example, in downtown Portland, the charging stations have no cost, however you still pay the same standard rate ($1.60/hr) to park.

Coulomb has a website where you can look up charging stations and their associated fees (if any) at ChargePoint Network.

 

When the cost of the electricity (at max draw for the outlet) is a small fraction of the parking fee, it would cost more to meter the electricity than to give it away. At malls, it can be what's known as a "loss leader." That's something a store sells below cost to draw in customers, hoping they'll buy other, more expensive stuff. In a way, free parking is a kind of loss leader. It costs the mall money to own and maintain space for parking, but it brings people to the mall when they can park for free and have access to lots of stores, where parking downtown can be difficult and expensive.

As EVs become more common, downtown parking will begin to feature charging, perhaps at an extra fee for parking slots with chargers. Malls will install more charging spots, probably free, in keeping with their free parking philosophy. But as batteries improve and cars can drive all day on one charge, such "opportunity charging" will become less needed, and charging will migrate to hotels and motels, some of which will charge (no pun intended) for it (probably a flat fee for parking at the outlet) and some will provide it free as a loss leader. We'll see hotel/motel signs saying "Free internet, cable TV, and EV charging."

 

Hey, the Sun Viking Lodge in Daytona already has done that, at least for me they did. I just asked them if there was a plug outside, they showed me where, and let me recharge. I was a bit nervous because when the Prius with the Hymotion kit is charging, since I have the plug in the trunk, the trunk must be slightly open. However, at their location, it was really blocked from view by their landscaping. I probably used about 8 kWh total in the three days there, so I didn't overly take advantage of them either.

 

Lots of places have outdoor 120 v. 15 or 20 a. plugs, and some of them will let you use them. In North Dakota, where older cars HAD to plug in during cold weather, they are common, and it's taken for granted that they are for the public to use. But when an EV has a 300 to 400 mile range, a full overnight charge will require a 240 v. high-amperage (30 to 50 a) circuit, and most places do not have those other than in the laundry room for the dryers. This is the infrastructure that will have to be installed. It's easy to do and does not cost an awful lot, but a decision has to be made to do it, and that will only happen when the management perceives a demand. The cost of the electricity is not a lot. You probably used less than a dollar's worth. A Model S charging from empty to full in a high-rate area might use $10 or $15 worth. Most hotels would probably not give that away for free. But people will pay whatever they have to, so it can be a revenue stream for the hotel, but installing the circuits will be justified only when there are enough EVs on the road that they can recover the installation cost. It will happen. But it will be gradual.