Your Moment in the Sun: Post PIP EPA sticker guesses

Rcda = 15 miles
AER = 0 miles
0.75 gal/100 mi
20 kwh/100 mi

 

Wild guesses assuming toyota is slightly conservative in estimates
Rcda = 15 miles blended range
0.5 gal/100 mi
22 kwh/100 mi

CS gas mileage
48 hw/50 city/ 49 combined

 

AER = 13 miles, with 15 miles blended
0.25 gal/100 mi
40 Kwh/100 mi

 

Blended Range = 20 miles
AER = 9 miles
0.75 gallon/100 miles
15 kWh/100 miles

 

Blended Range = 16 miles
AER = 12 miles
0.65 gallon/111 miles
38 kWh/100 miles

 

mpg(e) = 90
Blended Range = 18 miles
0.55 gallon/100 miles
18 kWh/100 miles
AER: As defined by EPA - Irrelevant to me, car is designed to maximize efficiency.

 

Correct me if I am wrong here, but you guys seem to be far underestimating the car? To the best of my knowledge the Li-Ion battery is 3.6kwh, and you still have the NiMh battery that is 1.6kwh as well.. I personally think the car will come clost or best Toyota's in house figures especially since it uses the ICE for heat generation and acceleration. Personally 15kwh/100mi is a really really low figure.. I drive my Volt pretty conservatively for the most part, and I myself am at 31kwh/100mi (it is EPA rated 35kwh/100mi). I think the PiP will most likely come in at:

Blended Range = 30 miles
AER = 17 miles
1.8 gallon/111 miles
30 kWh/100 miles

 

Here is a hint. Looks like Dianne is winning this one.

For Leaf :

For Volt :

 

With the Japanese PiP requiring 3kWh for a full charge with the charging loss, I was trying to calculate things backward.

We know the blended MPGe is 87. That's 87 miles to a gallon equivalent energy (33.7 kWh).

If you subtract 3kWh of electricity, you are left with 30.7kWh of gasoline. That's 0.91 gallon of gas.

We know PiP is expected to get 49 MPG with gas only. So, that 0.91 gallon would go 44.6 miles.

87 - 44.6 = 42.4 miles

3kWh of plug electricity would stretch another 42.4 miles? That's too good to be true! Where am I going wrong?

 

3KWh will take you about 9-12 miles not 42

 

Pardon my ignorance, but what are AER and Rcda?

And does "blended" refer to fleet average in the real world, or is there a standard blend used for the figure?

And are there separate MPGe figures for EV mode, blended mode, and hybrid (CS) mode?

I imagined that blended mode would mean the car starts with a full charge, and then is allowed to use both ICE and battery as the computer sees fit, as the Hymotion plug-in conversion does, so I'd have guessed the blended range to be twice the EV range, or around 30 miles, after which the car would go to hybrid (CS) mode. But with so many people guessing the blended range about equal to the EV range, maybe we're using different definitions.

 

MPGe is supposed to be a way to express All Electric Range (AER) as the equivalent of miles per gallon because that is the way "most people" understand the range between "refill"s. It fails as a comparison because internal combustion engines are so different at energy efficiency than electric motors. There is more equivalency in "blended mode" but this is not easy to compare because it is so variable.

If someone can make sense of this, they will fill me with awe!

 

Very funny.

You're treating it as if the 87mpge means 87 miles traveled on
3 kWh of electricity + 1 gallon of gas.

It would actually be 3kWh + energy from G gallons of gas for B blended miles or more generally E kWh plus energy of G gallons of gas for B blended miles.

Then, the ratio between blended miles and mpgE M is same as the ratio between energy consumed over the blended miles and the energy in a gallon of gas (33.7kWh). I.e:

M/B = 33.7/(E+33.7G)

Or:

M = 33.7B/(E+33.7G)

B, G and E are revealed by testing. E is relatively fixed but does actually vary slightly with temperature.

 

All Electric Range
Charge depleting actual range. It's R[subscript]cda[/subscript].

http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2012/zev2012/zevappa3.pdf

Blended means running in a combination of EV and HEV. If a PHEV cannot run all the tests (which are meant to represent all driving conditions) in pure EV mode it would have a blended mpgE, an Rcda and a CS mpg. If it can complete the tests in EV mode it could be treated as an ER-EV and be given EV mpgE an AER and a CS mpg.

A BEV would obviously only have a EV mode mpgE.

Blended mode mileage depends on the tests. The PiP would be able to perform most of the tests in EV, but longer tests or harsh acceleration would force the engine to run. I wouldn't expect the Rcda to be that high.

 

The test mules kept the original NiMH pack and added two Li packs but the production version is all Lithium, with, I think, two subpacks.

Rcda: 18 miles
gal/100mi (CD test): 0.655
kWh/100mi (CD test): 16.667

 

Thanks for the explanations. Since the numbers are going to depend on tests whose details I am unfamiliar with, I have no guesses.

However, I'll guess that the actual EV range will be around the 15 miles Toyota's been saying; that if the car is forced to use the ICE from the start it will use about half gas, half electricity while the grid charge lasts, halving its use of gas during the first 30 miles; and that in EV mode it will get the same 3 to 4 miles per kWh that most EVs seem to get.

Very slow steady-speed driving is more efficient, but slow-speed driving is usually stop and go, which will cancel out the slow-speed advantage.

Those are my guesses.

 

It is much more easier to get a larger range in EV than in ICE - because of heating. My monthly mpkwh (wall to wheel) has ranged from 3.1 to 4.4.

 

Reviewing the testing proceedures (see http://www.smidgeindustriesltd.com/leaf/EPA/EPA_test_procedure_for_EVs-PHEVs-1-13-2011.pdf and
http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/HV/457.pdf

I'm still confused on how they combine the final numbers across the 5 test cycles (PiP should do old UDDS in EV, but not the Hwy and definitely not US06, so some will require blending.. so maybe that means no AER at all, Or does one estiamte AER on each and average??)
I'll go ahead and estimate

Blended Range = 18 miles
AER = 11 miles (if reported at all, I think one gets AER or Blended, not both.)
In Blended mode
.64 gallon/100 miles
34 kWh/100 miles

(Edited gall/100m had forgotten to scale to 100m)