How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

Even at 90mph I've gotten a good 25-30 miles on my Volt's charge. I blast the 20 miles home all the time and have never fallen out of CD mode. It would happen every single day in the PHV, even with gas usage during the limited CD phase.

 

25 miles / 90 mph = 0.28 hours = 16.7 mins and game over and time for the 8 hours recharge.

This is why a clean and efficient gas engine is important for highway speed.

 

Temporarily setting aside the issue of endangering others, I thought the whole point of these vehicles was to use energy more efficiently??? Rather than as an expensive toy???

I'm less of a fan of EV's than I was because it appears that the EVs' heavier battery usage will reduce battery capacity more quickly than the lighter usage in a hybrid. And running the battery down unnecessarily with high speed dashes is likely to shorten its life.

Also, the architecture of the Volt relinquishes the primary advantage of a hybrid: in a hybrid, the additional torque from the electric motor(s) means that the gas engine can be made both smaller and more efficient than that of a conventional car. As I understand the Volt, when it is in CS mode the gas engine provides all the power to propel the car. So one is back to a more powerful, less efficient ICE. Which we see in the Volt's relatively poor CS mpg compared to typical hybrids.

 

Not if you are a fan of the Lutz school of car design, as embodied in the Volt.

Lutz has been quoted in this forum from his book. Powerful, EV only driving is the experience the Volt offers. Energy efficiency was sacrificed for sure; I suspect battery longevity was too, but only time will tell in that regard.

Design as embodied in the Prius PHV not only downsizes the ICE, the blended ICE use protects the battery from having to run at high discharge rates a lot of the time.

 

I can concur with this... 35mpg on the highway to me is not really acceptable for a PHEV as far as being efficient. Our Prius with properly serviced tires, with 3 other people in the car + luggage gets about a 50-52mpg calculated at the pump average after running back and forth to Beaufort, SC & Orlando, FL from J-ville.... I am guessing by highway speeds we are talking 70mph+. I drove the Volt from Green Cove to Jax Beaches on a single charge. Granted the car had 1 mile left on the batt when I pulled it in the garage. That was driving 60-65mph for about 31ish or so miles. I really think which car is better really depends on what you intend on using the car for. Both have their ups and downs. For the Prius it is low speed inner city driving in hot weather, and for the Volt it is long distance driving. Granted the Volt's gasoline mileage is not terrible, but after having my Prius I kind of look at 35 or so mpg's as being not so great. The Prius though conversely is not so good for doing my 11 mile drive to work & back everyday as it really does not have time to hit peak efficiency. Plus I can hit base traffic with a full battery, and by the time I get to the gate the battery is depleted. Then it does not recharge in the 15mph-25mph speed limits on base. So the gas mileage really tanks at that point cause the motor is running constantly. So anymore my wife uses the Prius to take the kids to the doctors across town, and I use the Volt for my daily commute to work. This is why I say everyone needs to evaluate their individual needs, and whether the cost of entry is worth it to you.

 

Sounds like Prius PHV is made for you with 11 miles round trip. It would be great for your wife as well with 49 mpg.

 

For me the most important aspect is freedom from oil. My drive home is 20 miles. When I leave work I know no matter what I do I am not going to use a drop of gasoline, so I put it in sport mode and I have a lot of fun.

If I was worried I might use gas on the trip I'd drive more conservatively to get the most out of the electric power before the switch. I really don't care if I burn 6 kwh or 9 kwh on the trip home as long as I burn 0 gas; so I live it up in power and freedom (even if it costs me 30 cents that day, as opposed to say the gallon of gas I'd burn in a prius driving the same distance the same way [roundtrip])

 

^^ I will find you a lot less offensive when PV is enabling your 'freedom' rather than pollution.

 

It would if I had a place to charge while I am at work for my 8 to 10 hours per day, and if we didn't already have the 2011 Prius II. The only public charging stations in Jacksonville that I know of are Mike Shad Nissan (Im surecthey would love to let me charge my Volt there lol) and the dealer I bought the Volt from out in Green Cove. When we move to Norfolk VA in a month I so far have only been able to locate 5 or so stations. I think wheb the infrastructure comes online a shorter range PHEV maycbe wonderful. So far though for me the Volt is able to be used like I would any other car. Jacksonville is a pretty spread out town so if it works here it can work just about anywhere I think (using it in full EV). We love our Prius as well. Only option I would really like to have is the radar cruise control.

I also agree about the pollution comment. I find it kind of questionable that these cars. Actually reduce pollution. In my mind it just creates the pollution elsewhere. It is going to take a long time though to either get clean energy going, or change peoples mind set. I know where I live it is all coal power so. I doubt we will see any change in our lifetimes though without some kind of energy shock/legislation.

 

Its coming, expect permit approval in a couple of weeks.

At least the fossil fuels burned by Delmarva power are domestically sourced instead of sending the money overseas.

I also like that about 40%-some odd percent of my electric driving is nuclear powered. With about 70% of my driving being electric and 40% of my electricity being nuclear, I've got about 3,000 nuclear miles traveled. (I am a former navy nuclear engineer).

I mean think of those guys in the Tesla roadsters, they got them for the sports car driving. They did not spend $110,000 a pop for a fuel efficient commute.

 

so are so many niche transportation needs out there right now that are just beginning to be met by EV options.

i displayed my car on Earth Day at the WA State Dept of Commerce and i had never seen an office dedicated at what they do to their level.

there job primarily was to figure out how to generate and maintain money flow within the state. that meant how to create jobs locally and prevent us from having to buy a lot of stuff from foreign sources.

as soon as i got there for the show, i knew something was amiss. it was Tuesday at noon, the parking lot was less than half full and i thought to myself "did everyone take the day off?" because state parking lots are closed, restricted, reserved and woefully undersized. in fact there was an issue about 15 years over parking issues especially in the downtown area. but that is another story

this office had 6 people who did not own cars at all. 4 people who biked to work every day (that is significant where the rainy season lasts 7 months!!) including the manager who lives in Tacoma (that is 25 miles ONE WAY!!)

5 more car pooled and a handful rode the bus. the only disappointment was the director who lived in Seattle (55 miles one way) and did the most driving by far plus she frequently shuttled to another office for meetings (both of which were less than a mile away and she DROVE). her only saving grace; she did drive a Prius.

there is also Joe, founder of PlugInOlympia he has 2 NEVs, solar (ya in WA!! can you believe it!) and a Toyota Camry. the Camry averages just under 5,000 miles a year. the 2 NEVs average more than 15,000 miles between the two of them. keep in mind; NEVs go no faster than 40 mph (he modified his from 35 mph) and no farther than 30 miles between charges.

but i could go on and on. so sure, a Leaf is a GREAT opiton for nearly any two car family, but there is a lot of people who could make it work as a single car. now, its not the majority but even a niche market of a million nationwide insures the Leaf's success. now that we are starting (i think...) to get some competition in the EV market, prices should become interesting. its a great time to be in the market.

 

Prius Plug-in Offers 15 Electric Miles, But Retains Wimpy Feel | PluginCars.com

"Yet, offering a plug-in car that looks just like a Prius, and drives just like one, comes at a price: namely, that it looks just like a Prius and drives just like one."

"To EV drivers—including this one—it’s annoying to hear and feel the gas engine of the Prius Plug-in Hybrid come on so easily. Based on my eight miles in the production version on Friday, it happens anytime your foot applies slightly too much pressure, even if it’s just coming out of a parking lot."

 

You do not understand it correctly. The ICE supplies about 1/2 the power that MG2 can draw. It relies on the battery to fill in the gaps.

Ultimately, its CS mileage is impacted by its considerable (for its size) weight and off the shelf engine (no Atkinson, DI, or HCCI).

Of course, as noone here ever gets tired of repeating, the whole point of the car was pure EV operation with good performance even at the expense of some efficiency, which it does quite well. It even returns better EPA highway numbers than the Leaf, believe it or not.

 

For Volt CS mileage it's useful for context to remember that the Volt is about the same size, weight, and has about the same performance as the 2011 Lexus HS 250h but the Volt gets better gas-only mileage.

The 250h gets 35 city, 34 highway, 35 combined versus the Volt which gets 35 city, 40 highway, 37 combined on EPA estimates.

Presumably GM can improve this further in the 2nd generation Volt after having time to customize an engine rather than using one "off the shelf".

Of course, as others have pointed out, most Volt drivers will be driving electric most of the time so differences in gas-only efficiency have relatively less impact.

 

Here's something to consider about battery longevity. The smaller battery of the Prius Plug-in will be more likely to lead folks to recharge it more than once per day and this will put more stress on the battery.

The attached graph is an example of the concept but it is based on a Lithium cathode battery chemistry called NCA that has fallen out of favor recently and probably is not used in the Prius. It also supposes a hot Arizona/Texas temperature profile. On the other hand, it's "PHEV 20" battery is much more generously sized than the one in the Prius.

This is taken from the NREL paper "Improving Petroleum Displacement Potential of PHEVs Using Enhanced Charging Scenarios".

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy09osti/45730.pdf

 

Its worse than that...

Many of the PHV supporters here at PC think the pack will fill itself back up as they drive along the highway in CS mode (I believe they are mistaken). If that were true it would lead to an astronomical increase in the number of cycles and battery life would drop precipitously.

 

Know your audience.

Prius drivers will be thrilled how much more electric power Prius available. EV drivers will of course be annoyed, since they never have to consider pedal pressure. I was delighted to see how much easier hill climbing became... since I was comparing the plug-in model to the regular.
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How many have made that comment?
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In HS250h's defense, it has an outdated gas engine from the last gen Camry HSD. When it refreshes with the new engine from 2012 Camry HSD, there should be a big MPG boost.

I think CT200h is closer to the Volt since they both have the same hatch configuration. 43 city / 40 highway / 42 combined is better than Volt. However, acceleration is not as fast but on longer mountain climbs, 1.8 liter engine will perform much better than Volt's 1.4 liter with a much heavier car (keeping mind we are comparing CS mode).

Even the bigger Prius V gets better gas mileage (44/40 and 42 combined) than the Volt.

 

At least 5 including at least one moderator.

 

...in CS mode, which most drivers are in about 30% of the time, weighting the other 70% of the time at 94 mpge the Volt does better (60mpge combined composite on my 2011 being about 50% higher economy than a V)