We are in a unique position...

what about taxes, anyone no the deal about avoiding paying sales tax twice? Illinois requires I pay sales tax for any car I buy..

 

in mass, if you have proof you paid the tax elsewhere, you don't have to pay here.

 

let's all agree not to pay more than X amount under msrp!

 

Yes, the Nissan Leaf roll-out was similar. AFAIK, the best negotiated discount price was 5% off MSRP.

 

Not so fast.
You can call, and the dealer can verbally promise, but then you have to online order and give the dealer 96 hours to seal the deal. During that window you cannot order from another dealer.

This window is when shady dealers will try and re-negotiate the amount since you are bound to them at least as much as walking into the showroom.

I would also warn people who are financing the car to iron out the interest rate during this window period, although how this will happen for a future purchase is not clear to me. Best I think will be to walk into signing with 3rd party financing set up already.

 

As UCBRUINS points out we should be able to negotiate just like when there is ample inventory (since we effectively own the inventory). With that shouldn't we be able to negotiate much more than 5% off of MSRP and get very close to actual dealer cost?
Anybody know what actual dealer cost is or in other words what a reasonable discount off of MSRP should be?

 

I think you will find quite the opposite is true. The dealers are very aware of how few of the PiPs will be available, so they are not willing to sell for less than MSRP. Sure you can use your 96 hour window and try another dealer, who will give you the same story. If you do this more than once, It's very likely the PiP's will be sold out for 2012

 

I called the Illinois department of revenue to ask about this a couple of weeks ago and was told:

Illinois requires that if the sales tax in the state you bought it in is less than what would have been charged in Illinois, you pay the difference. If the state has a higher sales tax, you don't have to pay the difference.

I encourage you to call them to make sure this is what the deal is with the tax you're going to pay, rather than just taking my word for it. But that's my understanding after talking to them.

 

No one knows what the car will cost the dealership yet. It's not been revealed. And, get as pushy as you want. Most of us are aware of the work that goes into this sort of rollout. The constant effort and phone calls and emails and time spent doing many things related to these orders. There is way more to this entire process than whether or not you can save an extra buck or two. And, frankly, with a list of confirmations, what do you think will get confirmed most rapidly with most dealers? The buyer who ground you down to no profit? Or the buyer who respectfully acknowledges that this process is a lot of work, and doesn't mind the dealership making a small profit.
I don't expect the profit margin to be that great in this model. I expect the worst, and hope for the best. Remember, Toyota gets invoice for the car. It doesn't matter what YOU pay, Toyota gets the invoice from the dealership. The dealership gets the amount between invoice and whatever you pay I feel strongly that if a dealership isn't feeling properly compensated for the months of work their people are about to do, you may end up frustrated and in a different line.

Earning this model after the preorder list is filled isn't based on the sale of this one u it. It's based on all prius related sales. As a prominent and high volume Prius seller, with all the phone calls and emails and texts and hand holding and soothing and well... As the arrival time for the cars nears, it gets worse. Went thru it in 2000 when the 01s debuted. Then again in 2003 with that messy pioneer preorder allocation f-up and yes I'd type the word if I could because I prayed Toyota would learn from that grave mistake. Let's hope they have.

I welcome any and all orders at what I consider to be a significant discount on both models, but if we are lucky, there may be 5% total profit in the darn cars. That's where we are on much of the gen III cars anyway, and there's profit in them to Toyota motors. The phevs are quite obviously not a profit center for Toyota, but rather a car they are required to bring out, even at a loss.

Di

 

That makes it impossible for you/any dealer to negotiate anything at this time, right? When will Toyota release this information to you?

 

I don't think it really matters until the cars arrive. You pick your dealer, pay the $500 deposit, they order the car. When the car comes in, you can work out the details of the deal, the trade, financing, etc. If you decide you don't want the car, you get your $500 back, and the dealer sells the PiP for far above MSRP, as you have now created an "orphan", same way it worked with the Nissan Leaf. This is why they have no real reason to discount this vehicle, plus the constrained supply.

You also do not have a sales contract in the automotive business without a VIN, so you can only have a "handshake" agreement anyway, until the vehicle exists, has a VIN and the paperwork can be done.

 

you are not in that unique a position!

They are not saying when they plan to release our invoicing details. It's a non-issue. Whatever it is, we gotta pay it anyway. At least you know your window sticker pricing, so you know about what to expect. Lucky you!

I predict there will be a lot more orders for the cars than there are cars. That will leave many of you, sad to say, in lines for the cars after the pre-order line shuts, so be nicer to your dealers. That's my best MOM advice right now. Quit acting like they are desperate for your pre-order. We aren't. Trust me on that one.

I predict that lots of dealers will process their first pre-orders for the NICE folks who are not grinders ... believe it or not, some folks are actually OK with their dealership to make SOMETHING rather than just to have another piece of iron to sell for no profit <ahem> ... and there are nowhere near enough cars to go around (at this time) to fill the demand in year 1.

Like I said, I am hoping for the best but I have to assume the worst. That there will be only enough profit in the sticker to offer the decent discount that I have offered my own folks ... and unless every single one of my buyers gets in there the instant the window opens, I'm going to see a lot of folks waiting months for cars after the process ends and it's a free-for-all.

I disagree with the contention that the deal should be decided afterwards. On pre-order, that's unfair to the buyer. If I order a car and designate Carson Toyota as my dealership, I should have a general idea of what I can expect. At this point, dealing with a nameless, faceless entity can be tricky.
Will the person you're dealing with still be there when your car comes in? (I know I will)
Will they have the power to sell at promised pricing for your own designated car? (I know I do)
Can you rely on them to show you how things work, pair phone, explain the charging, and treat you with respect and care? (Yes, I will!)
Or, will some sales manager at another dealership try and blow your deal so he can sell the car to his neighbor for $5000 more money? You have to factor these things in when you order. I have to trust you to come and get it for the pricing specifically stated in the online order. If you do not, and it does get sold elsewhere, I am sure it hurts me or my allocations of this car somewhere down the road.

You have to have some simpatico feelings with your ordering dealership. If you don't, then find one you can trust and walk this coming path with. The phone calls, the updates, the emails, the concerns and issues on a vehicle that is months away... these are NOT easy to manage whilst trying to sell what one DOES have to sell right now. On a personal note, I stay up till 12-1am sometimes just trying to get thru emails and reading posts and keeping up with my own clients' needs .. many of whom don't care about your PHEV that's 6 months away... they want answers about the Sienna or their Prius or a Venza on my lot right now. No one's bosses care about what's going to happen 6 months from now. Especially if there's no profit in it.

I'm sorry - a few of you want to feel you're in the catbird seat and do this # :lalala: but hey, you're wrong. Partner with your dealer. Make sure they are accepting and happy with your deal and that it's a win-win. I'm not so certain you'll like your alternatives if you don't. And, that may not appear till later, when you're getting hosed on your trade and can't do anything about it. Or, they can't hold the car till you get in a few days later ... or some other crazy nonsense that makes a cat(bird) fall off its perch.

Again, my best MOM advice for you. Just some thoughts.

 

One thing everyone here needs to keep in their mind is that the Prius is built in Japan, and the Dollar keeps falling against the Yen. There were 125 Yen to the dollar a few years ago. Today there 76.55 Yen to the Dollar. As long as this continues the cost of a new Prius will keep going up.

Yen to the Dollar

 

the rub...

I think the real problem folks will face is that the advanced order system will cut off after the specific amount of cars IN it is exhausted.
The cars will them switch to a normal regular allocation of cars. That is when you'll see the wild wild west ...
That will be the not-pretty aftermath of this.
:faint:

I am prayin' that all of my peeps get in quick and order. Get prepared. Hey there are some new photos up at the Pressroom site that look really good... that green might be growing on me for color...

 

thanks buxley,

I guess I need to look into form rut25 or rut50.... (retail use tax)...

 

While this is true, it oversimplifies things a bit - I have had to deal with this sort of issue with Mass twice - one buying a car when living in RI and another buying a car in RI while living in Mass.

If you are living in Mass and buy a car out of state they will make you pay full Mass tax and then try and get a refund from the state where you bought the car. Mass is incredibly strict on this - I would imagine in large part to the long history of folks buying and registering new cars in New Hampshire (no sales tax) and then driving them in Mass. Mass has really cracked down on this.

Having done this twice it is not too terribly difficult, but you do need to be careful and also let the dealership know up front. Both times for me the dealerships were very helpful and took are of all of the issues. In both cases I paid my sales tax to the state where I was registering the car and knock on wood I have not had any issues.

If you are thinking of this I would highly recommend that you pay the extra fee to have the dealership handle the out of state registration. At least in the states that I have registered cars (MA, PA and RI) the sales tax has been paid when the car was initially registered. The one time that I did not do this (the car bought in MA and registered in RI) I had a fair bit of a hassle and had to go to the RMV 2 days and also drive back to the dealership to pick up original docs - for any of you that has had to deal with the RI RMV you know just what an ordeal that is.

 

Uh wait a second, I'm pretty sure in the ordering video they make it clear that you sign some paperwork that locks in the price when you place your order. The only thing that could be up in the air is trade-ins, since your car will obviously depreciate in the time between ordering and delivery (or you could crash it, etc).

No?