Please Help Me Choose a New Car!

Have you considered the 2012 Camry Hybrid? Per a post here, MPG is up considerably over previous years, it will provide room comparable to the Volt and costs almost half the going rate for a Volt. Rumor is the price is not increasing for the 2012 MY Camry Hybrid, and there may even be a price reduction on the base model.

With a 60 mile commute (assuming this is one way), you probably won't see the full benefits of a plug-in, as you'll be running on gas/electric for at least half the commute anyway. Reports of real world mileage on the Volt are not that impressive after the initial charge is depleted (32 mpg if I recall correctly) and it requires premium fuel like your Audi. A Prius plug-in would net you overall better mileage, but at an increased up-front costs. I would venture to say either a standard Prius or Camry Hybrid would deliver the best bang for the buck given the length of your commute. The Prius would sacrifice a bit of room for better gas mileage, as the Camry would provide a bit better ride and a more conventional vehicle, and still see mileage in the high 30's/low 40's.

 

You are coming out of an Audi and seem to have a good handle on their quality issues - your comment about not wanting to hang on to it past warranty is dead on. If you are looking for a fun car to drive you could stay with Audi or VW and get a diesel - great mileage compared to just about anything except the Prius and a whole lot of fun to drive. You could go for a Jetta or soon they will have the Golf TDI on sale. You could also do an A3 TDI . I have always said that these are great cars to drive but lousy cars to own - the diesel would be even more so - I hear that the torque makes them a hoot. If it were me I'd almost definitely lease, and this is coming from a guy who has never even considered leasing in the past.

If you are really considering the Prius I'd recommend that you spend some time driving one - one of our local dealers allows 24-hour test drives and perhaps one in your area does something similar. I had a Passat before my Prius and in terms of comfort and driving the Prius was a definite step down - at the time I was driving about 1,100 miles a week so mpg was the only real factor.

 

In that case, the Prius plug-in may be a good choice, depending on the asking price once they are released. Especially if you can find a parking spot close enough to an electrical outlet to run an extension cord while at work!

I'd love a Prius plug-in, with me only having a 40 mile round trip commute at speeds under 50 MPH, I could all but limit my gas consumption to weekend errands!

 

You know, I'm not sure! I thought it was supposed to be higher than that, especially at lower speeds. If it's only 13 miles, then I'd stick with the regular Prius. I've been averaging 50+ MPG on my commute since I got it, best tank was 55 mpg. Quite honestly, I don't hyper mile, I just drive conservatively. The added cost of the Plug-in may not be worth it.

On another note, the regular Prius is supposed to have an EV Mode, but I've yet to have it work. Everytime I press the EV button, the screen says it's not available. I think I'd want to do a very extensive test drive in the Prius Plug-in before dropping the premium they want for it, to ensure it's actually worth it. If it even remotely acts like the EV mode in my Prius, I'd pass on it...

Now, having said all this, if I were in the market today for a new Prius, I would definately wait till the 2012 was in the showrooms. It sounds like the improvements would be worth the wait. Also, if every new Prius is going to have a touch screen and a backup camera, I certainly would NOT spend the extra $2K for the NAV! Buy a nice Garmin, slap it on the Driver's Port Window and use that $2K on gas!

 

At 8cents per kWh, the Leaf is cheapest to run up to 73 miles between charges, the Volt is cheapest to run between 74 and 84 miles between charges, and the Prius (not plug-in) is cheapest after 84 miles between charges.

We shall see soon how the Prius plug-in fits into those numbers.

 

It sounds like you need a bit more room that the Volt can provide. It's only got room for 4 passengers and the trunk looks pretty small. One of the things that surprised me about our Prius (6 months old now )was how much space it has. The hatchback design and fold down seats allow for carrying 10 ft long pieces of lumber. We've got two kids to haul around and space in the Prius is rarely a problem.

 

The 13 miles is if you drive below 60 mph purely on battery. If you drive above 60 mph, it'll be in the blended mode using some gas and slowly discharging the battery. You should be able to go 50 miles in that mode while getting around 75 mpg.

Here is the screen from John when he tested the prototype:

 

I wonder if you forgot that the Volt uses Premium, as I calculated similar numbers for gasolene usage but much lower numbers for $ cost. I have the non PHV Prius cheaper than the Volt by 55 miles.

 

If you are looking at the VW's made in Germany the reliability is quite similar to an Audi - on the lower level Audi's there is a whole lot of parts swapping. It is the Mexican cars that have a whole other set of problems. From what I understand the Golf is German made - it is a very fun car to drive, will come in a TDI and is a 4 door hatch - perhaps it is not for you, but just something to consider.

To throw out another car that I absolutely love but does not have the great MPG numbers of diesels or hybrids - the Acura TSX Sportwagon - it is the Euro Accord and is just gorgeous - I happen to love wagons though. It is a low volume car and right now they are hard to find. My wife had decided to get one about a month ago but the dealership offered her a killer deal on an RDX (a demo with 8k miles for over $10k off when everything was factored in). I love my Prius, but if they made the TSX Wagon with a stick I think that I'd be all over it.

 

Prius Self Destructs at 120,000 Miles

I have a 2006 Prius. At 120,000 miles, the engine died. It cost $6,000 to rebuild the engine. Only Toyota is willing to work on a Prius. Other engine rebuilders charge much less for other engines.

My wife has a 2002 Prius. At 125,000 miles, the inverter died. It cost $4,200 to put in a new inverter. Only Toyota will work on a Prius.

Toyota has designed the Prius to Self Destruct at 120,000 miles or so. Other Toyotas last many miles longer. Shame on Toyota for ripping off people who are trying to buy green cars.

 

ATP = Advanced Technology Package, available only on the Trim Five Prius.

 

Re: Prius Self Destructs at 120,000 Miles

California is a big state, so it is impossible to know if any of these places are close to you.

Art's Automotive
http://www.philsautoonline.com/
Auto Repair Culver City | Auto Mechanic Culver City | Auto Repair Shops
Luscious Garage | Hybrid Specialists

I hope that helps.

 

I'd suggest the Prius 4, it's available now, known technology and has everything you need. It's a little short on luxury vs the Audi, but for the commute you have the this is your best bet IMHO.

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles but I call BS on your assertion. Besides being in usbseawolf2000's 06 Prius w/130K miles last year, see the examples at Lifespan/Operating costs - Prius Wiki and http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-main-forum/79235-299-999-mile-club-34.html#post1378678 (video of the crossover to 400K further down).

I wouldn't ever buy a VW/Audi over a Toyota until their overall reliability record is even in the same league as Toyota or Honda. It's nowhere close. VW vs. Audi reliability is a mixed bag. It depends on the model, but Audi sure didn't do well per http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...reliability-findings/reliability-findings.htm.

I haven't followed this thread but why are you so set on Prius Four? If you're concerned about upfront purchase price, why not Prius Two? How well equipped is that Golf TDI? Have you taken into account that diesel is more expensive than regular unleaded for most of the year? Take a look at Daily Fuel Gauge Report--national, state and local average prices for gasoline, diesel and E-85..

New Car Prices, Used Cars for Sale, Car Reviews, and Quotes at IntelliChoice.com pegs the Prius Two as having far low 5 year TCO than a Golf TDI.

Then there's Report: NHTSA investigation into 100,000 VW and Audi diesels intensifies and TDI ISSUES - HPFP Cases. (Glad to see that VW/Audi is finally getting some more scrutiny as they seemed to be flying under NHTSA radar in the past. It made no sense that VW/Audis seemed to have few safety recalls yet such a lousy reliability reputation. I suspect that it's due to them selling in tiny #s here so any safety complaints are going to appear in small quantities.)

If "green" is of priority, there's very little "green" about the Golf TDI. So called "clean diesels" do far worse on EPA air pollution score than the Prius. Go to http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/Index.do, check both checkboxes on the right and select your state or CA. Sort by air pollution score. Also, since diesel has more carbon content than gasoline, burning a given amount of it produces more CO2 than gasoline. See http://www.epa.gov/oms/climate/420f05001.htm. Per the Green Vehicles page, for the driving profile they use, here are numbers for a Prius vs. Golf TDI:

Prius (http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/Detailsresult.do?vehicle_ID=137036):
Smog-forming Pollution: (pounds per year) 2.81
Greenhouse Gases Emitted: (tons per year) 2.97

Golf TDI (http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/Detailsresult.do?vehicle_ID=137365):
Smog-forming Pollution: (pounds per year) 5.29
Greenhouse Gases Emitted: (tons per year) 4.96

 

Agreed that the Prius apparent interior quality in terms of richness of materials, feel, etc. is definitely a significant step down from Audis and at least earlier VWs (until say the latest Jetta redesign). Audi and VW are/were pretty good when it came to this but it didn't necessarily translate into interior bits that wouldn't break or peel.

It sounds like you've been influenced the thoroughly CNW junk science that refuses to die or Top Gear which also helped perpetuate it. Please see Environmental - Prius Wiki. If nothing else, just read the Pacific Institute PDFs that I linked to.

I've already given you some figures about emissions (both GHG and non). Also, consider that if you got the 38 mpg overall that CR got on their manual Golf TDI vs. the 44 mpg they got on their Prius, over 100K miles, that's ~359 more gallons of fuel. Diesel apparently weighs about 7.15 pounds/gallon so that's another ~2566 pounds of extra fuel.

Think about needing to drill for crude oil, transport it, refine it, ship the refined fuel and then carry it as dead weight in your car. Also per http://www.eia.gov/KIDS/energy.cfm?page=oil_home, in the US, a barrel of crude oil yields 19 gallons of gasoline and 10 gallons of diesel.

Using the earlier figures, the Prius would've produced ~44090 lbs. of CO2 from burning gasoline vs. the Golf producing ~58421 lbs of CO2 from burning diesel.

Back economy, you can see how the Prius and unfortunately manual Golf TDI stacks up at Most fuel-efficient cars and Best & worst cars review, fuel-efficient vehicles.