Prius Plug-In Production Car to be Revealed On Press Day 13 Sept

I'm talking about a combined city+highway EV mode range.

 

It's its 3 digits it better have complete 3 digits and not 188.8 where the highest MPG only goes up to 199.9mpg.

 

Yeah the display sticking at "only" 199.9 would be annoying!

 

Opel Ampera also announced the European cycle rating yesterday at 1.2L/100km or about 196 mpg. I wouldn't put too much stock in the European cycle numbers.

Opel Ampera : Consommation de 1.2 l/100km, 27g de CO2 par km | Amperiste

 

They are what they are, consistent measures of the miles travelled divided by fuel consumed in their test cycle. Not massively useful, but at least one consistent data point.

 

That's in US gallon. Plugin Prius' 134.5 mpg is in imperial gallon.

 

The reported European stats are in liters so I don't think that's the rub.

PHV was 2.2 L/100 km and 49 g/km CO2
Ampera was 1.2 L/100 km and 27 g/km CO2

I don't thinks its a big deal. The numbers are off from anything practical because the Ampera (Volt) completes much more of the circuit without using any gasoline. I mean just because Europe thinks the Ampera is 50% more efficient with half the emissions doesn't make it so.

I'm just pointing it out because of people implying it'll translate into particular EPA estimates, and some people claiming this scenario is so much better than GM's 200 mpg claims when the official number for GM (Opel) on the same metric is 196 mpg.

 

Didn't mean to imply it was a rub. I was just pointing out different units being used.

What would be interesting to know is how much electricity both cars used running through that test.

I wonder if Europe has plugin car test standard like SAE J1711.

 

Exactly, that is the key piece of data that is missing to make these figures relevant in any way.

 

What's more interesting is, why did Ampera use gasoline? The test is only 11km (~7 miles) and top speed is 75 mph.

 

Anyone think GM/Opel intentionally used a sliver of petrol to get a big mpg number to tout?

 

They apparently weight the cycle done with a full battery and with an empty one. I'm getting info from a french site translated to english by microsoft so its not real smooth but:

A propos des chiffres de consommation de carburant | Amperiste

 

no this is a euro formula that sets an arbitrary rate to not give 0l/km

So they use the 0l/km for the km in ev mode, then average it for consumption gas consumption for 25km. So the ampera is rated for traveling 89km and the prius phv for 48km without counting electricity used. Does anyone know how much electricity is used to charge an empty phv battery?

 

Reading it in French, I can confirm you got the gist of it. After they run it in each mode they use the formula near the bottom to get the final result.

 

^^ not quite.

The EV range is one weight (at 0 L/100km)
CD range is the second weight set to 25 km (using ECE L/100km)

So, e.g., if the Prius plug-in managed 25 km EV range and ended up with a 1.9 L/100km result, it would mean the ECE result for the depleted battery part of the test was 3.8 L/100km.

I still cannot grasp what this calc models, but there is not going to be any kind of fudge factor to translate it into an EPA equivalent.

 

The calculation came out to 1.12 l/100km. I have no idea how it became 1.2 l/100km.

The CO2 from gas is 27 g/km. The calculation for CO2 from electric should be measured from the plug. So instead of 8kWh consumption for a full pack, it should be 12.9 kWh (per EPA).

(145g x 12.9kWh) / 64km = 29 g/km

The total CO2 is 27+29 g/km = 56 g/km

Now the question is the Plugin Prius' 49 g/km CO2. Does it include emission from the electricity?

Edit: Answer is no. 134 mpg = 2.1 l/100km = 49 g/km CO2 emission.

If we include 4.4 kWh* of electricity for 23 km range:

(145g x 4.4kWh) / 23km = 28 g/km

So Plugin Prius total emission should be 77 g/km.

*Ampera has 16 kWh capacity and it only takes 12.9 kWh to charge it. Prius PHV has 4.4 kWh capacity and it is unlikely it'll take 4.4 kWh to charge it.

 

I seem to remember that at > 70MPH, the Volt/Ampera "locks" the PSD gear to the engine, and the engine does run at >70MPH as its more efficient... so that would be your answer. The Volt has a variation of the Prius's PSD, although they have made a few changes to it.

This is why they can't just replace the engine in the Volt with something else, such as a fuel cell, since the engine is actually part of the drivetrain, and not just a pure electrical generator.

 

That's only when the battery runs out. In CS mode, gas engine can drive the wheels to increase efficiency with direct mechanical power transfer.

 

I seem to remember reading on GM-Volt.com that the engine is used at high speed, even with a full pack. I could be wrong, but I think the point is at >70MPH, the drain on the pack is signifigant, so they use the enigine for assist.

 

Its rather simple if completely screwed up methodology. They take the gas burned in 25km and divide it by the EV range + 25km

so (4l/100km)*25km/(64km CD + 25km CS) = (1L/89km) = 1.2 l/100km
the prius phv must them be the gas used in 23km CD + 25km CS = 48km.

4.4kwh seems high.

No usb is correct. The engine provides a direct path to the wheels if the battery is depleted and the car is going at high speed or moderate speeds with high loads. There is no engine assist if the battery is not depleted.