It's The Bible Quotes Thread!

Do you believe in "Black Holes?"

 

The Black Hole of Fort Williams Calcutta? Yes. Do I believe the most fantastic version of it? Basically, except I thnk the number of deaths was exaggerated.

A black hole as an area of space-time where nothing can escape. Yes, the theory fits the observed data. Is it a core part of my belief system that I would cling to if a more defensible explanation came along? No.

 

I searched this supposed quote from Thomas and came up with a link to a gnostic reference and satan worship page...

Regarding Scripture:

2 Timothy 3

New International Version (NIV)



1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone. A Final Charge to Timothy

10 You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, 11 persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

Yet a Black Hole has never been observed and IIRC all the data the scientist have accumulated or "observed" comes with a caveat about the very data you depend upon for your belief.

 

regarding santa claus and God both being imaginary... It's interesting that santa claus is clearly represented as imaginary in wikipedia.

And the currency you use if it's U.S.A. is pretty much all have the phrase "In God We Trust" which is the national motto... History of 'In God We Trust'

 

I don't have to believe to have read his words.

Jack Ryan is a fictional character from Tom Clancy. I don't believe that Jack Ryan ever existed, but I know a lot about him and his belief system. One doesn't need to believe to understand.

Tom

 

What would I have done? If I was an all powerful god and I needed to kill someone to make my point? I guess I would have killed Pharaoh. After all, Pharaoh was the one holding the Israelites as slaves. Pharaoh was the one would commanded that newborn Hebrew males be killed. Pharaoh was the one that wouldn't let the Israelites go. It seems like God had an issue with Pharaoh not all the firstborn of Egypt.

So how about this. Moses says "God commands you to let my people go". Pharaoh says no and drops dead. Same thing with the replacement Pharaoh, until someone gets the message. Of course that is just my small minded attempt.

Don't worry, I'm not looking to you to tell me what is moral. I know killing infants is wrong, I was simply asking you your opinion. Apparently you don't have a problem with the killing of infants as long as God does it. I personally believe that God should be held to the same level of morality as his creation. I don't buy the argument that Old Testament times were different so different rules apply. To me that is evidence that man created God to fit his circumstance and the morality of the day. If instead, God created man, the rules should stay the same and morality would not be dependent on circumstance and the passage of time.

Believe me, I haven't taken the easy way out. That simply proves that you don't know anything about me.

I was raised in a deeply religious, independent Baptist family. We attended church a minimum of 4 times per week and believe me, I'm well versed in the bible. I was very active in my church and comfortable in my faith until I was elected to the board of deacons in my early 20's. Seeing the inner workings of the church was an eye opening experience. That was also the time that our church decided to stop supporting the local homeless shelter because they allowed other denominations to preach. That $100 per month was the only real and tangible good our church did in the community. The rest of the budget went to maintenance of the church and to pay the paster. That got me wondering if our church was really fulfilling its purpose on earth. After all, Jesus was pretty big on feeding the hungry and helping the poor and light on the construction and maintenance of buildings.

About a year later I resigned my position as deacon and my wife and I moved to another state when I took a new job. We found a new church, this time a 4000 member Southern Baptist church. Things were fine for a few years until we attending the Sunday evening service when the annual budget needed to be approved by the congregation. The new church might have been 4000 and the church of my youth only 100 but the budget was the same. The new church had a budget of $2.5 million per year. $1.2 million went to salaries for the 22 employees with the majority going to the 8 pastors. The head pastor lives in a $500K house in the best part of town. (This is a rural county with an average household income of $27K) They also decided to cut the $5000 they contributed to the local soup kitchen. However they did manage to find $75,000 for new giant flat screen TV's and boom mics for the sanctuary. I guess the projection TV's and wireless mics where too old fashion. They also had a $10K budget for cut flowers. That was what it took for me to see that my church was really more of a club than a means of effecting positive change in the community. Southern Baptists are also effective at political organizing. They played "We vote values" videos before the service during the run up to elections. They didn't specifically name candidates or parties to support, but it wasn't hard to know who a good Christian should vote for.

That didn't shake my faith in God, just in my church. It pushed me to reread the bible. In odd thing was that reading the bible is what lead me away from my faith. It was hard to ignore the obvious difference between the God of the Old Testament and Jesus of the new. In Old Testament times God was the God of the Israelites. He was the baddest God among gods and blessed or punished you directly in this life. The Jesus of the New Testament loves the entire world and your reward or punishment comes in a future life. Add in the the obvious contradictions that become glaringly obvious when you read the text in context and I had a hard time squaring the circle. We actually agree that the Old Testament doesn't mention a path to heaven. I find that very troubling, apparently you don't.

It is actually a lot harder to leave the faith that you have grown up in than you might think. It profoundly changes relationships among family and friends. If you think Christians have a hard time in America, you should try being an atheist in the bible belt.

I do keep an open mind. I am currently reading the Old Testament. Though I have read it piecemeal I haven't read it straight through. Next year I will be reading the Koran and the book of Mormon.
The Buddhist Sutras are on the list too. It is actually a lot harder to research and compare religions than to blindly believe the religion that you are taught as a child and ignore the rest.

 

I've lived that experience, too. One honest answer to a simple question, and suddenly people you thought you knew can act very differently.

 

That's basically what I said. What's your point?

 

So you believe they are His words? Well that is a positive step.

 

^ Your probably not of this denomination or agree with their doctrines but read this book, "Desire of Ages" Ellen White it brought me to tears and a much deep appreciation and knowledge of who/what God is and why He's does what He does.

Sad I can't have conversations with all atheist like I've had with you, thank you and God Bless.

 

Stev0,

I've listened to this topic for five years and did not respond until this year. Almost without exception, my responses you have had issue with were not with a mere presentation of a non-religious view but an attack on religion - that simple. And not just an occasional attack, but a constant one with contempt of anyone of faith. No other forum I've been involved over the past 11 years has remotely had flamewars on this topic.

Discussing one's beliefs is fine.

Ridiculing another's beliefs is not fine.

This have never been a problem to the numerous people I meet in person or the other forums I've been a part of.

 

Beliefs that are ridiculous are bound to attract ridicule.

 

That is a matter of opinion.

Again, I don't see nearly as much of this ridicule in person or at other forums - I must be dealing with more civil people in those places.

_________________

This sums up many threads like this at PC

Non-religious member: I want RESPECT! - Leave me alone! BTW, you Christians are stupid and evil. (repeats this again and again)

Religious member: Could you stop the attacks?

Non-religious member: Hell no - you are stupid and evil...your mere presence at PC is oppressive - LEAVE ME ALONE!

Religious member: What about live and let live?

Non-religious member: Yeah - when you leave PC or convert

 

I recently took a 34 week Disciple class with my wife and 10 other folks in Greenwood. Explained the first night that I was not a believer but that it was another way to spend time with my wife, supporting her in her faith. By the time we got to week 34 most had put it out of their mind that I was not a believer as the discussion had not been acrimonious.

Several of the believers had not realized that even biblical scholars regard some books as novels (Ruth, Ester, Daniel) This was not surprising to me, there are histories, song books, poetry, political tracts, why not novels? I was happy I was not the one who 'revealed' this fact. I did bring up Acts 8:37 and other lines that come and go at the whim of modern editors.

Disciple 1 Class Outlines

 

Maybe you are, I don't know. Maybe they're more willing to turn a blind eye, or turn the other cheek. Maybe there's less tolerance here, or more honesty - I'm not familiar with your other sites to be able to make a valid comparison. Speaking only for myself, I am in no way singling out Christians, nor am I singling out you, Chuck. You seem to have appointed yourself Priuschat's 'defender of the faith', which to me explains why you bear the brunt of so much criticism. To your credit, you are a better spokesperson than a few others here.

 

^ Part of it is face to face people generally don't get as augmentative as on the internet.

Another part of it (sort of related to the internet) is addressing people....sometimes when I say "atheist" I mean "non-religious" .... alternately, I will see examples of pedophile priests, greedy televangels, etc. .... I too am outraged as you, but my issue is a few here carp on "therefore these bad apples make the entire basket bad"

In a more neutral or even friendly setting, I would be a lot more open to skepticism. Unfortunately a few here are not in a discussion mode at all, but completely adversarial and that encourages strife.

 

That's interesting. Usually it's the other way around. Hiding behind anonymity and generally not knowing their adversary well enough to care about their feelings, people on the internet tend to tear each other down, rather than build each other up.

Unless of course you're referring to internet porn, where I hear augmentation is pretty common.

I love typos.

 

How's about a new forum or sub forum, Fred's House of Religion or Lack Thereof? Make it like FHoPol. where you have to join, that way you all can amuse each other in there all day without the rest of us being any the wiser.

This thread has confused the heck out of me I tried to follow but I am lost. Never read the Bible tried to but did not make it out of Genisis.