Should we blame the Nazis for our current healthcare conundrum?

Yes. I was hospitalized for 1 month in the states with no diagnosis. Insurance company (which is considered the gold standard around here) kept denying the tests the doctor ordered. Doctor comes in and says "you need blah, ill check back thisafternoon with the results" and then the nurses would come back and say we can't do that test, but we can do this other test that is close. So they do that then the doctor comes back and says "why did they do that? It doesn't help" (paraphrasing obviously). It was 28 or 29 days in the hospital hooked up to a steady IV line with multiple blood drawings and the whole nine yards. The doctor could never do the tests he wanted to do, and could only guess. To top it all off, after I got back from home (where they were actually allowed to treat me because there is national healthcare they figured it out and released me) I received a bill for $255,000+ USD for me personally.

Note that I had full insurance coverage, I had one of the best insurance policies available, bills are 100% paid in full and ontime, and everything was done correctly. Now 2.5 years later, I am still fighting with the insurance company. I send at least 2 FedEx courrier messages every month with letters showing them where in my policy they are not allowed to bill the patient (me). I continue to receive threatening phone calls from the insurance company collectors. They have sent it to "collections" over 4 times now, and each time I have to explain to the collection agency what they are doing is illegal, courier them the agreements, wait a few days and the collections are dropped. Rinse wash repeat.

I flew back to Toronto, went to the hospital, was diagnosed in about 3 days, and was out in about a week. Total bill: $1200USD airfare to Toronto.

 

In what world are insurance companies "the people"?

 

I was referring to our trust which are voted in by the participants to do the will of the participants.

 

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. Never said the current system was good. Our government is too involved now.

Thanks for clarifying that you are from Canada... makes many things more clear to me.

 

The only government involvement now is between the lobbiests and congress/house to impede any social progress towards a universal system.

Being from Canada is no secret, I am proud of it. The government is involved in Canada and everyone is covered. Most of what you hear about Canada's system in the states is a lie plain and simple. It works, it works well, and it is less expensive to run than the system in the states while providing a basic human service to an entire population.

 

spidie aren't you also against mandatory driver licensing? passportization? traffic laws? they are ultimate manifestations of bureaucratic tyranny. Think, the driver licensing program run by government and you have no choice and alternative provider.

 

This is a classic free market argument, that a free market will produce an optimized outcome. There is no guarantee that a free market will converge on optimization, but for the sake of argument let's set that aside for a minute and assume that the free market system will converge on something close to optimization.

The problem then becomes one of creating a free market. Very little of what Americans view as a free market is really free. In the case of health care, the insurance companies have effectively cornered the market through a variety of anticompetitive practices. The consumer really doesn't have a free choice.

Tom

 

..there is also a keynesian point of view arguing that private sector microeconomic-level actions, if taken collectively by a large proportion of individuals and firms, may lead to inefficient macroeconomic outcomes..

 

From the sounds of it, you are in a non profit healthcare trust, sort of like Blue Cross Blue Sheild was before Wall Street saw the profit potential in for profit healthcare. My first policy with BC/BS was $17/month (obviously before Wall Street).

Not for profit' healthcare puts people first. 'Not for people' healthcare puts profits first.
(shamelessly stolen quote)

Our healthcare system is not healthy, is not caring and is not a system.

 

Well, to get back to the thread, if we blame the Nazis, couldn't we really blame all of WWI, since arguably, the WWI armistice caused the rampant inflation and worsened the world wide depression in Germany, which created a power vacuum that allowed the Nazis to come to power? And in that case, couldn't we then blame complicated European diplomacy that caused the state of fear and uncertainty that allowed the assassination of a minor potentate to precipitate Europe into WWI? We could keep going on and on. How about we just blame the Europeans and be done with it?

</witty repartee>

 

I blame those damned Mesopotamians and their "civilization" crock. If we were still nomads with no roots, we wouldn't have hospitals and governments! Down with civilization!!!
:cheer2:

</extension of repartee>

 

I've been a Mental Health care provider for nearly 30 years. I was astounded by all the BS that came out around Health Care Reform.
I work for a non profit, yes we make money and we get paid and we reinvest in the organization.
All the scare tactics about "death panels", "socialism", and the power of competition are pure bull.
We needed that public option, so no one was making a profit for their stockholders. Remember, Insurance Companies have nothing to do with healthcare; they're financial institutions, just like brokerage firms and banks. They add no value, only cost. You would not believe how many people are employed to deal with the insurance company rules and how long it takes to literally "fight it out" with people who get paid to deny claims. The government really couldn't do a worse job and they don't make a profit. Good lord, look at the last month and the mess in DC!

 

I've also worked for a mental health agency, though not for as long as you. I was surprised at the amount of money flowing through the organisation, and how little of it actually ended up helping clients directly. One afternoon I suggested humorously to a coworker that it would be cheaper and probably more effective to stand on the street corner and hand out cash to those who looked like they needed some. They told me I wasn't a 'team player'.

edit: Note to rpatterman: Nice quote. You should note your source.

 

i'm no fan of insurance companies, but, 'could the government do a worse job'? 'look at the last month and the mess in d.c.'? hmm...

 

People pay taxes and social security, and they're entitled to a discount on what they pay for their healthcare. It's being taken out of their paychecks.

I don't think those right wing radicals will ever succeed in cutting into health benefits and social security--even with such a weak president as Obama. Because the People won't stand for it. They will vote them out in the next election. Just watch.

 

Then get rid of all of the 'R's and things will start working.

 

I would have but as I stated, it was "shamelessly" stolen.

 

Three observations on "they add no value, only costs".

Over the last dozen years I have been with 4 different health insurance companies. Not once did I ever receive anything anything from any one of them suggesting a healthy life style or an annual checkup to reduce my likelyhood of later, expensive health issues.

A now retired neighbor had an old fashion, one doctor/one nurse private practice. He also had two people doing billing/insurance claims. I commented that it seemed ridiculous to have two people doing billing for a one doctor office, and he told me he also outsourced insurance billing for a couple bill insurance companies because there was no way his two person staff could keep current on all the insurance procedures and regulations. On top of all that he estimated he only collected for 70% of his insurance billings.

Insurance companies can only increase their revenues two ways:
more policy holders or higher premiums. Higher healthcare costs justify higher premiums. What incentive do insurance companies have for lower costs?

 

rpatterman,

Before I moved 10 years ago I had a private practice doctor as my primary physician. He told me there were over 200 entities he had to deal with in billing. I believe he was sending his billing out instead of having his own staff.

I have heard that around 30% of medical cost is parasitic load because of insurance companies. The insurance companies take a big bite, then the doctors and other medical service providers have a large operating expense just dealing with the insurance companies.