1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

"Brake Service" every 2 years/32,000km.

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Tideland Prius, Aug 3, 2011.

  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,675
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Just to test the grass on the other side of the fence:

    We've been Honda customers for about 30 years prior to getting this Prius. Regular brake service is a way of life with Hondas: regular, front-and-center in the scheduled maintenance. For most of those years I did the brake inspection myself.

    The 2 things I stay clear of now are drum brakes (apart from loosening them from the backing plate and re-lubing the contact points), and brake fluid change/bleed, both of which I just leave to the pros.

    Apart from that, it's no big dealing taking a lower caliper bolt out, swinging up the caliper and pulling out the pads, and check thickness. I also disassemble the shims, clean all faying surfaces, put a thin coat of antisieze compound on all points of contact.

    Then clean the caliper clamping faces and the front of the piston, check the boot for leakage. Then apply thin coat of antisieze to those faying surfaces.

    Once in a while I'll clamp on a dial indicator and check disk runout, and check disk thickness with a micrometer, both for uniformity, and to verify it's still above minimum thickness.

    All of this is really not that hard, and worthwile IMHO:

    The argument that taking things apart is inviting disaster is overblown. Maintenance can and should be done, and these things are not rocket science.

    The one caveat I hear about the Prius: bleeding fluid may trigger faults, requiring dealership's tools. I'm not sure if pushing in the pistons to accomodate new pads (if ever needed) would also trigger codes.

    Ok, all done, LOL.
     
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    No idea. The regular maintenance menu already lists "visually inspect brakes" (see above for details).

    I'm not against regular maintenance. I'm just wondering what's different up and beyond the standard brake check that is done with the regular maintenance anyway and why certain Toyotas (Corolla, Matrix, RAV4, Venza and Prius).
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,675
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Are other Toyota vehicle's brake services cheaper? (I think that's the unfinished thought in your post.)

    All I can think of is 4 wheel disk, vs drums in the back. Drum brake service, as long pad replacment is not involved, can be pretty easy. Other than that I would think it's pretty similar. When I went through the dealership, our Honda's 4 wheel brake inspection was invariably north of $400. Toyota would be similar I think.

    It's really not that involved though. If you're for example rotating your own tires, or swapping to snows, it's something you can do yourself in an afternoon: good opportunity while the wheels are off anyways.
     
  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    It's not on the maintenance menu for our 2005 Prius (disc/drum) and I don't recall it being on the menu for the 2002 Camry (4-wheel disc). The engine coolant is to be changed at 32,000km for the Camry (now it's 160,000km for the 2010 Prius). Most of our Maintenance (Service B) costs have been around $200 and oil changes (Service A) around $50. The most expensive maintenance was when we got new tyres for the Camry and did an AT fluid change in addition to the standard maintenance menu. That ran close to $1,000. Tyre rotation used to be included in the maintenance menu (and extra cost if you decide to do it outside of it) but now I noticed it's an extra cost even if you do it at the time of the Maintenance service.
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,675
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    That's strange for me, coming from Honda. Have you read the USA Prius schedule: pretty much evertime the mechanic catches a breath it's time to check...: the driver's floor mat, LOL.

    With Honda brake service was sort of similar, really regular. It seems odd for it to be completely absent for the car's you mention: you would think Toyota's lawyers would be all over that.

    Brakes can be the thing that stops you getting killed (or killing), occasionally. It may be a bit excessive, but a fishing expedition, just opening up the caliper occasionally, will spot stuff.
     
  6. derkraut

    derkraut Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    299
    28
    0
    Location:
    SAN
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    II
    "brake inspection" @ 30,000miles for $US100+ is just a major ripoff. I've had my 2006 for over 5yrs, have 46K miles. Never had it in any shop except for inverter pump replacement (mfr recall under warranty). I change my own oil/filter, cabin filter, engine air filter. These are all easy, simple things to do. I have virtually no wear on my brake pads/rotors/shoes, which I "inspect" myself in a couple of minutes. Just had the tires replaced with Michelin energy savers. My lifetime MPG is 49.5. Best car I've ever owned, except for my new Leaf.
     
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,174
    8,353
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    +1
     
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yeah our 2005 has been fairly low maintenance so far.

    Yeah that is kinda funny hehe.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't check the brakes. I'm saying it's already included in the annual maintenance check (see bolded)

    I'm just wondering what "Brake Service" covers over and beyond the visual checks. You would think but it's only for a handful of vehicles and only recently. Again, service differs from manufacturer to manufacturer since they're using different sources for their parts and different composition of materials. Mercedes uses a really dusty brake pad so my smart's wheels were always covered in brake dust. That never is a problem on the Toyotas we've owned (and I wash the smart with similar frequency as the Toyotas)
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,675
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I've watched Honda mechanics at work. They basically get the pads out, all the shims separated, clean all components, fresh anti-sieze at all points of contact: back of pad, to shim, to shim, to caliper (either piston or the caliper "fingers", depending on the side).

    They also look at the piston boot, give it a wipe, make sure it's in good condition.

    Not sure if they do it every time, kind of doubt it, but check of disk runout and thickness/parallism is sometimes done.

    Some shops push disk machining, which in my opinion is rarely warranted: I can't see maching down a disk that is not giving any problems.

    That's about it, for disk brakes.

    Drum's I've not watched, but I suspect they:

    Blow it out with compressed air (healthy...), relube the points of contact between shoe and backing plate, and maybe between the piston and contact point with shoe. I believe they manage this without complete disassemble, but not sure.

    That's how I do it, I hate drum brake disassemble. Partially because I don't have the know how and proper tools for dealing with the springs.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks for explanation!

    Well luckily they switched to 4-wheel discs onthe Gen 3! The rear drums on the Gen 2 were tiny! (10" maybe?) But they were rarely used (brake pad thickness on the rear is higher than the fronts) but it's a little more evenly distributed on the Gen 3 if you believe the number they put on my work order.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,675
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Rear disk brakes are a mixed blessing: they're complicated by the ongoing need for a parking brake mechanism. And drum brakes, apart from being a royal pain if you're actually swapping shoes (I'll never do that again, just pay the pros), are relatively stable, easy to deal with. And the shoes last a long time.

    Just for example: 06 Civic hybrid (Gen II first year) had drum brakes in rear. Then maybe in 2008 they went to disk (same gen). I believe with Gen III coming out (sometime...) they've reverted to drum brakes in rear, go figure.

    The bulk of the braking is done by front. Rear brakes contribute, and keep the car stable, but are not that much of a factor.
     
  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    disc vs. drums I think can come down to cost versus style. The new Civic Hybrid's alloys have fairly thick spokes so you won't be able to see the brakes anyway. On a Prius with the 17" alloys, you'll see the brakes and it'll be nice if it was a disc that was peeking through the spokes rather than drums. I suspect it also made it easier to order one part for the entire world (Remember that we lacked rear discs and a height adjustable driver's seat on the Gen 2 and I suspect it came down to cost)
     
  13. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    4,539
    1,433
    9
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    You are right on about the cost issue.
    There have been other cars where Europe got disks in the rear and North America got drums.
     
  14. excelsior

    excelsior New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    2
    0
    0
    Location:
    new zealand
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Hi Everyone, just joined your forum. Owned my Prius since new for 5 years. Done 100,00km. Front brake rotors worn out. Need replacing. Still on original set of pads. How can this be? Thought the brakes are meant to last a long time with regenerative braking. Mechanic told me some Toyotas had very hard pads and wear rotors instead. Car driven very softly with lots of open rd driving. Anyone else had this problem? New pads $80 but new rotors $480. Ouch!
     
  15. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    4,067
    688
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    There are some after market pads and rotors available but I don't know what shipping would cost to New Zealand.

    I have used ceramic pads on another car I was very pleased with their performance. Here is an Idea of what is currently available. I don't know if you do your own maintenance or not but pads and rotors are usually pretty easy to replace.

    Google
     
  16. markderail

    markderail I do 45 mins @ 3200 PSI

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    2,260
    163
    18
    Location:
    Pierrefonds (Montreal) Quebec Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I simply forgo ALL of the inspection items / services. Oil change twice a year at 10 to 12,000 km's. Nothing else. (door lubes included in price)

    I'll change the air filters myself every 2-3 years.

    The inspection itself probably does more harm than leaving it alone. Bolts have to be undone & tightened.

     
  17. markderail

    markderail I do 45 mins @ 3200 PSI

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    2,260
    163
    18
    Location:
    Pierrefonds (Montreal) Quebec Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    A regular Camry will pay a LOT more than 480$ total in brake jobs over 5 years and similar driving. Like 4x more. We've got it cheap with the Prius.
     
  18. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    4,539
    1,433
    9
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    US list price for 2006 Gen 2 rotors is $102 and they are available for about $75. In NZ dollars that would be about $125 list per rotor. I realize you aren't in the US but your dealers prices seem out of line.
    Part Detail

    You might want to get a second opinion on the discs being worn out. At 60k miles that smells fishy.
     
  19. northwichita

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    481
    102
    29
    Location:
    Wichita KS
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    wear rotors instead. Anyone else had this problem?

    I've driven my 04 prius 3+ years delivering mail, stop and go, currently has over 220 k of which maybe 90k are route miles , same brake rotors, no evident wear(visual). Changed brake pads, shoes, once.

    I checked the rotor near the hub, with my fingernail, wear from the brake pads may have been the width of a thin letter.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,675
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Just FYI:

    new front brake disc thickness: 25mm
    service limit for thickness: 22mm
    Max runout: .05 (wobble)

    new rear brake disc thickness: 9mm (Wow, didn't realize it was that thin. Solid though.)
    service limit for thickness: 7.5mm
    Max runout: .15

    A micrometer is best for checking thickness, about 10mm in from edge, at several points. A caliper would do in a pinch. A dial indicator and bracket (typically magnetic base, with 2 arm sections) is needed for runout). Both these items are pretty cheap nowadays. The micrometer's most important, just to check thickness. They're about $30.

    Regarding:

    Don't know where to begin on that one. Just hope you're not behind me when I need to do a panic stop, LOL.