Chevy Cruze to have diesel version and get 50 mpg.

He's in Europe, referring to European ratings. Note that the Golf he refers to is a 1.6 TDi, one of the MANY smaller-engined versions of models that economy-focused residents of the USA would love to be able to buy but can't.

 

See the link that was in your own quote for my source!

 

The Golf TDI is expensive because of all the other forced add-ons such as 17" wheels and GTI suspension. Canadian Golfs have to meet the same emissions standards but don't get the forced add-ons and are $2k cheaper than a Prius.

 

Diesel passenger cars are prevalent in mainland Europe where the fuel is subsidized. The UK is an interesting exception since the diesel fuel is priced about the same as petrol yet diesels manage to grab about 50% of the market.

My WAG to explain the UK anomaly is that the manufacturers have found they can downsize the engine considerably more than petrol equivalent cars because of diesel's better torque performance characteristics. A 1.2 L petrol engine would feel like a dog in the city, while a 1.2 L diesel, while no race car, is OK coming off a light.

That said, diesels are getting squeezed by hybrids on one side, and pollution controls on the other. I would not buy stock dependent on passenger diesel success as time goes on.

 

Hey Tideland,
Here's the EPA comparison with my 2010 Prius.
Just finished my long standing family crisis, hope to get to those old pictures of Banff soon.
Tony

 

In the US VW and Mercedes have the diesel car market cornered. So they can load the cars up with options, inflate the price, and still sell them. Then most people here seem the feel any car here with a0 to 60 over 10 seconds as unacceptably slow.

So, if GM can avoid the temptation of offering the diesel in only higher trims, they'll have a strong competitor for the Golf/Jetta. If/when the Mahindra diesel pickup comes to market, it will be interesting to see how the market responds.

Diesels aren't dead. They currently have more of a future with bio-fuels than petrols.

 

Please restrain your nice person!

Base engine sizes:

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3
0	Car	UK	USA
1	Ford Fiesta	1.25l	1.6l
2	Toyota Yaris	1.0l	1.5l
3	Honda Jazz/Fit	1.2l	1.5l

They can use smaller diesels because they can use smaller gasoline engines.

Actually, I think diesels have already been squeezed by the pollution controls, but the grip is loosening a bit as manufacturers have brought the price down. The problem is that gasoline engines are getting more efficient, albeit more expensive.

One thing to consider about diesel in the USA is that if you look at VW's sales, even as they've seen significant sales growth over the last year the proportion of diesel sales has remained relatively steady with at most a 2% drop from 23% to 21%, even with the lower priced Jetta the sales leader. I do expect the Prius v to put a good dent in diesel sales though: the Jetta Sportwagen TDi finally has a competitor.

But, even with the Prius v taking sales, if you look at other German companies selling diesels in the USA you see a steady growth in diesel sales. Audi has two models with diesels having percentage share in the 40s and 50s

Like hybrids, market acceptance is growing. Like Troll, I hope GM won't just try and add to the diesel "driver's car" market and will push diesel as a more efficient option.

 

The EPA MPG ratings are far more realistic then euro ratings; the euro ratings akin to US CAFE.

Another issue that US tier 2 bin 5 regulations cause worse MPG and inflate price. Honda has tested diesel Accord in US, looked at costs/benefit then abandoned their diesel strategy altogether.
-------------------------------
BTW the 1.6TDI gets worse MPG then Prius in european cycle, 23.8 km/l vs 25,6

 

The cars I quoted are all in the same class as the Prius. All the choice examples chosen by you are much smaller, other than the Octavia 1.6 tdi. A great economical car but not quick and not an automatic.

Also, once you take into account the 'city' fuel economy ratings you will not find one that gets near, but when have facts ever bothered diesel fan boys?

 

Honda looked into it a couple of years ago when clean diesel was first coming to market. There was much speculation and misinformation amoung the public on what the new fuel and emission controls will do for performance, price, and what new maintenance would be involved. We are now past reports of Mercedes urea tanks costing over a hundred to fill, and the diesel owner can get the fluid at Wal-mart, if not his local diesel station.

Besides, after the first Insight, Honda seems to be just resting on their laurels in terms of improving economy and emissions. They've become risk averse and rely on their rep.

 

So Avensis is the same class as Prius? Prius is packaged nicely for interior volume, but Avensis and its competitors are larger cars. This is why I'm mentioning the more fuel efficient and less pricey Auris and its competitors.
And what does not being an automatic have anything to do with the topic on hand? The cars listed achieve their fuel economy using the transmissions listed.

And once you take into account the 'highway' fuel economy ratings you will not find one that isn't greater.
There is a reason why I'm quoting the mixed average. It's common knowledge that diesels are best at steady highway speed and hybrids in stop-and-go city traffic.

Excuse me?

 

The part you forgot to emphasis is that the hybrid beats the diesels in start/stop traffic as well as on the highway.

 

Are you now talking about the USA fuel economy standard or the European one which is relevant for the cars we are currently discussing, and for which that isn't true?

 

Since most of us are in the U.S. I am talking about the U.S. standard in which I would still be accurate if you compare like sized vehicles.

 

The Prius and the Avensis are in the same class - Class D. They also share the same wheelbase, though granted the Prius is not quite as long as the Avensis but much longer than a VW Glof.

NCap also class the Prius the same as the Avensis too - under their Large Family section.

Toyota Prius | Euro NCAP - For safer cars crash test safety rating

Perhaps you'd like to update your profile to your exact Country - just incase there are any differences between models and specs.

 

Yep, I was researching fuel prices for a potential road the other day and noticed that a number of the fuel stations were now offering bulk DEF dispensers right beside the diesel pumps.

 

They fall into the same category at EuroNCAP because there is no in-between category between Corolla/Auris and Avensis. The same can be said for Jetta which is between Golf and Passat.
I would happily compare Avensis hybrid to the competitors if it existed. Comparing Prius to the competitors of Avensis is not an honest comparison, which is why I chose to compare the smaller C-segment where Toyota has a hybrid and the competition has clean diesels.

I think your issue with me has more to do with (brand) loyalty than location.

If we want to find a common ground for comparison, I suggest the most important market in Europe: Germany.

 

We are talking about the efficient diesels in Europe which beat the Prius in fuel economy on highways. If the car makers brought some of these cars over and tested them using the US standard, then we would know whether you are right or not. As it is right now, the only standard that they are tested under is the European one and here the diesels beat the hybrids on the highway.
There is a reason why we keep seeing the Prius vs. some Euro Diesel tests which makes the PC community grind its teeth because the tests are carried out on highways. You know, stuff like this:
BMW Diesel Beats Prius in Economy Run

Here is the point that I have tried to grind through during the past many posts:
Toyota will remain in the shadows of the competition as long as Toyota doesn't offer either hybrids or clean diesels that are competitive in both combined fuel economy and price.


Edit. F8L. How could you miss that we were talking about European cars? I was talking about the bloody Avensis in the very post you were quoting! usbseawolf2000, did you miss that part too?

 

Was 78mph the average speed at which this test was conducted? I find it interesting if it was. At 80-85mph I completed a 300+ mile trip to Los Angeles with 42mpg on the consumption screen.

It I think it matters not if a Euro diesel can best the Prius in freeway MPG until their emissions are cleaner. The point is to reduce fuel use and emissions.

I'm not anti-diesel by any means. I regularly check out ClubTDI.com just to see how things are shaping up in the diesel department.