Volt is "obsolete" Compared to Prius Say CNN

I don't; if you drive 3,000mi per month you would have 180,000mi (or 290,000km) in 60 month and there will be not much value to speak about. Blue book lists 2006 Prius trade-in at $6,900 and Corolla at $4,300 in good condition. I doubt you will get that b/c in US people usually don't buy high mileage cars, and dealers will not give you fair trade in on car they can't sell. We have a very specific culture in here, it is not Europe. Out of visits to junk yards you will rarely see car with over 200,000mi on it, and it is hard to sell one with more then 150,000mi on it.

Basically if you drive car 3,000mi/mo you have 2 options:
- keep until it dies
- keep it for 2-3 years (72-108,000mi) and then trade it for new model/new monthly payment. You'd be surprised how many drive their car 'till the ashtray gets full (80,000mi) .

To be fair we should probably mention inflation, as $2,600 5 years down the road will not be the same. With respect to cost of ownership (insurance, maintenance, etc) it is not as drastic btw Prius and Corolla.

 

you are right, but it is only the case if you decide to keep the car until it dies.

Never underestimate the power of stupidity.:focus:

That aside if you exclude commercial usage there aren't that many cars on the road with more then 200,000mi on it. 3,000mi/mo for 60 month =180,000mi.. If you think it does not really matter if you get them in 1 year or in 12 (which would be in compliance with national average) 180,000mi is a break even point.

 

I think we will find that an average Prius battery lasts 10 years. A high mileage driver can put 350k miles on the car over those 10 years, then invest in a good salvage battery that costs $1500 and drive another 150k miles. All told, $25k for 500,000 miles, or 5 cents a mile cap cost. There will be repairs -- about the same for a 500k Prius as a 150k - 200k mile Detroit POS.

This is the power of Prius, even before fuel savings and minimizing pollution are taken into account.

 

He doesn't have any fake paper money in the bank. He might have fake electronic money in the bank. Have everybody, who has deposits in the bank, all withdraw it on the same day and see what happens. Have everybody in every bank do the same and you will see just how fake that money (paper and electronic) is.

Look at the market collapse of 2008, see all those Billions disappearing? They were never there.

 

No need to change the topic.

People who say paper money is "fake" and only some shiny yellow metal with little practicle use is the real thing - never throw away any of that fake paper money.

 

The idea of real v fake money is entirely silly anyway.

Ultimately, the value of anything is based on what people think its worth.

 

Maintenance is not just dependent on miles and/or vehicle life can be time-dependent.

Living in Maine, you will understand that the direct and indirect effects that the weather has on the structure of cars. Crap from roads and a humid climate accelerates rusting, which leads to additional maintenance and sometimes sends the car to an early grave.

On top of that, the Prius has an expensive traction battery and the battery life doesn't depend directly on the number of miles. Replacement can be a $3,000 expense, and the difference between 100,000 and 300,000 miles is a very significant 2c/mile.

Then in Maine you have the front-loaded VET, which leads to an additional 12.15% tax in the first 5 years with a new car and a further 0.4% tax per year after that. The longer you take to do your miles the more additional ownership costs you will need to recover. For a $5000 difference in price you're paying an additional $607.50 in taxes over the first 5 years and another $20 in taxes per year after that.

At $3.60/gallon, getting 50mpg v 30mpg, even in the 6th and later year of ownership , you'd have to drive 416 2/3 miles just to recover the additional $20 in VET. (Gas savings would be $480 for every 10,000 miles of driving).

On top of all of that, there's the opportunity cost of that $5000 you've paid up front or in car loans.

 

You are trying to make an argument based on outlier statistics.

Your conclusions are of equal value.

 

didnt you just calculate in your response how you are keeping the car until it dies?




so which one is it?

 

GM is planning to make some 50K Volts next year. Toyota is planning to make 16K. Apprently Toyota things Prius PHV will sell in smaller numbers than Volt.

BTW, is CNN not obsolete ?

 

Let's not forget their own domestic market or the other new hybrids, like the model of v which offers a lithium battery.
.

 

July 19th, 2011

2012 Chevrolet Volt Production Begins, Capacity Is Tripled

Sounds good to me, if you can't sell 5,000, go ahead make 50,000!

 

One company is infamous for over-promise and under-deliver while the other is famous for under-promise and then over-deliver.

 

^^ Exactly

 

Well the claim is, it was supply constrained - we will know soon enough. BTW, Nissan would also be selling more than 16K Leafs in 2012.

 

When RAV4EV comes out, let us revisit this.

 

What are the promises?
.

 

When the pricing for the Volt was announced i knew it would be a weak seller. it does fill a niche but that niche is reduced by

1) needing EV range over 10 but under 30 miles (studies show highly inefficient trips are of 5 miles or less RT consists of 70%.

2) able (or willing) to pony up the cash for the car that expensive 20%

3) maintenance and operating costs. premium gas, still requiring oil changes, etc. along with a possible battery pack replacement (despite all the advances of battery technology and management, most people only think of their failing 13 month old cell phone batteries when they here Li anything) this reduces the market another estimated 20% over pure EV'ers

like many, i have major questions about why Toyota would choose such a short EV range until i realized that unless you are going to provide at least 80 miles, it does not make any sense to do a halfway solution due to expense.

**note** the survey i am referring to the numbers are estimates, i cannot find the link and i am pretty fairly sure it was from Nicki's blog so there you have it.

 

So, is anyone a GM math major?

They say they sold 2700 volts and couldn't sell more due to lack of production.

They then say they will triple production and make 50,000 next year.

Last time I checked 3x even 3000 isn't even 10k.

If you were supply constrained to <3000 sales how will cranking out 3x as many cars EVER equal 50k?

 

does anyone realize that out of that 2700, over 500 were delivered right away just so GM could bash Nissan for its slow rollout?

what are they saying now?