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new key - replace steering colum

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Blumengarten, Jul 23, 2011.

  1. Blumengarten

    Blumengarten New Member

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    I lost all the keys to my 2001 Prius. As an alternate to having the dealer take $1,000 of my money, following your advice, I asked the guy at the auto parts store if he could find a used ECU transponder with key. He found a junk yard that has a steering column with the key in it and would sell me the whole thing for $200 - does the steering column have the computer part that I need? When I read elsewhere it sounded like the part is in the dashboard, but maybe that's just because you have to remove the dashboard to get at the computer.

    Thanks,
    Blumengarten
     
  2. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    I can't remember if we pointed you to the Art's Automotive article on Gen I lost all keys fix. However, you will need to get the computer in addition to the lock cylinder + key (don't need the whole column). See the first picture in the article, which shows the immobilizer ECU+lock cylinder+keys, and the third picture, which shows the ECU approximate location.

    Prius 1st gen - Immobilizer / Lost all keys
     
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  3. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    You don't need a new immobilizer computer. Reflashing your existing one to new condition will solve the problem.

    The immobilizer has to be removed from the car, and shipped to a service that does reflashing. They will disassemble the computer, and write data to its memory chip that is a copy of the data in a new computer. The end result is an immobilizer that behaves like a new one from the Toyota parts department.

    Ask around for a locksmith who can do an "immobilizer reflash for a 2001 Prius".
     
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  4. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    The reflash is definitely an option, whereas the Art's Auto article describes the last, most expensive resort. My thought was, the salvage yard ought to be willing to sell keys + lock cyl + ECU for $200. That's probably cheaper than pulling a locksmith into the loop and sending out for a reflash.
     
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  5. Blumengarten

    Blumengarten New Member

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    Hi all,

    Thanks for the response. Yes, I opted to take Seilert's advice about the salvage option. I called two locksmiths, they each said they would charge $1,000 to reflash the computer, which is the same that the dealer would charge (I asked two dealers also, they weren't going to reflash the computer, but replace it with a brand new one - $375 for the computer and $500 for the labor and $100 for the key). The salvage yard is selling me the steering column with the keys in it for $200 + tax which is about what Seilerts had estimated, so that's what I decided to do.

    You had included the link to Art's article in my other threat, but I wasn't quite sure if the computer and key were in the steering column! I suppose it is, or the guy from the salvage yard wouldn't offer them to me! I just wanted to double-check
     
  6. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Don't be so sure that the salvage yard knows the scoop, because every car is different. I strongly suggest you pick it up in person, before handing over any money. But I can't see them not having the computer handy if the steering column is out.
     
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  7. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    You're still going to need an immobilizer computer that is either new, reflashed, or already paired with the set of keys that you get.

    The immobilizer in the car that you're getting the steering column from should match the keys.

    I suggest more calls to other locksmiths. There is a service in South San Francisco that specializes in reflashing immobilizers. As I recall, they charge a locksmith something like $100 to $150 for the service (no, they won't deal with a non-locksmith :mad:).

    As described by the article at Art's, the process consists of replacing a small box inside the dash (the immobilizer). Art's used a new one from a dealer. These days there is the additional option of reflashing the original one. There is also the problem of fitting a new mechanical key to the lock. The replacement steering column (with matching keys) solves that problem. So would having a locksmith pick the existing lock.

    Replacing the steering column in order to avoid picking the lock is like replacing the engine to avoid changing the sparkplugs. Yeah, it will work, but wow! :eek:
     
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  8. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    Now that I think of it, the salvage guy and Art's are addressing separate parts of the problem. They're both right, but are ignoring half the problem.

    The two problems you have to solve are:

    • Get a mechanical key that matches the pins in the lock
    • Get a transponder that matches the code in the computer

    The transponder is a small 1/8" by 1/2" electronic chip that is embedded in the head of the mechanical key.

    In order to use the existing steering column, the lock is going to have to be opened. This is what locksmiths do for a living. Or you could replace the entire steering column including the lock.

    Next you'll need a mechanical key that matches the lock you're going to use. A locksmith can make one, or you can use the one that comes with the replacement steering column.

    And finally, you'll need the transponders in your new keys paired to the immobilizer computer in the car. A matched set of the immobilizer and keys will do. Or a new/reflashed immobilizer plus new keys. Either way, the immobilizer box has to be removed from inside the dash, and the replacement put back in.
     
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  9. Blumengarten

    Blumengarten New Member

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    The steering column that the salvage yard has has a set of keys in the ignition switch, that's why he suggested I do that. So I think that would solve one problem, and on another post someone told how he was able to gerry-rig a that worked -- putting aluminum foil on the head of the key that didn't match, the one in that turns the ignition, then holding the key with the matching code right next to the key in the ignition while he turns the car on, that seems to make sense to me, so then I could have a new set of blank keys, have the locksmith make one new key, then use the key that is in the steering column to set the code on the new key.

    I don't know if it would be any use in calling other locksmiths. Pittsburgh's not that small of a town, but compared to SanFrancisco it is! They don't have as much competition so can get away with charging what the dealers charge. -- not to mention, in a city like San Francisco, there are a lot more Priusus in the road than in Pittsburgh, There are more now, but for the first couple years, my mother's was the only one I saw on the road.
     
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    To do that, you do need the key with the matching code - one of the codes already stored in your immobiliser ECU, or the key that came matched with the immobiliser ECU from a salvage yard (which you'll have to install), or any key and a new/reflashed ECU (which you'll have to install).

    But as soon as you have one key that's registered with your ECU as a master, you might as well take the foil wrap off any other key you have, and just register it with the ECU as well.

    (I have used the foil trick in sort of the opposite way ... I bought an uncut key blank and registered it with the ECU before taking it to the hardware to be cut, so I could make sure it worked. So I just left the master key in the ignition, and for the step where it's supposed to be the new key, I just put foil over the master and held the new key nearby. Then I took it down to the hardware, where the guy told me "sure I can cut it, but it still won't start your car", and looked sort of surprised when I put it in the ignition and drove off. :D)

    -Chap
     
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  11. Blumengarten

    Blumengarten New Member

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    Okay - I think we got a little too complicated, I just want to make sure that all the parts I need will be on the steering column. I know the keys are in the ignition, so I can use that key to make a new key without having to change the cylinder (so I don't have to change the door cylinders too).

    But before I go spend $200 on a steering column, I just want to make sure the other parts I need are there - when I look inside the car (from what I can see, the part that you have to remove the dashboard to get to could actually be on the steering column - and getting it this way would help me, since I would have to remove it first, I could see exactly where and how it goes, since used parts don't come with instructions. Oh, I wouldn't consider replacing the entire steering column! too many wires and stuff that could get messed up, I just want the parts! This seems like the best way to go, considering.
     
  12. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    That's what we are trying to say. You must get the immobilizer ECU that is paired with that steering column. The immobilizer ECU is NOT part of the steering column. It sits above it, underneath the dash.

    If you don't do this, then you would still have to pull the immobilizer ECU from your car and send it off to be reflashed, and then have it reprogrammed.
     
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  13. Blumengarten

    Blumengarten New Member

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    Okay, will the immobilizer ECU have that printed on it? If it has something else printed on it, do you know what?

    Sorry for all the questions, I want to make sure I get all the right parts!
     
  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Well, if I'm reading this ToyoDIY listing right, you'd be looking for something with a part number 89780-47010, and that does seem to be right since the Art's Automotive write-up seilerts found for you has a photo, and I can make out that part number on the label (which also says ECU, IMMOBILIZER). So, you're looking for something that looks like that. :)

    Hmm, price not as scary as I expected, only around $215 through some partswebsite dealers. Maybe they have had to adjust to competition from the reflashing services.

    -Chap