LA Times: Nissan Leaf far outselling Chevrolet Volt

so, you'll feel just as warm while keeping the cabin temp lower?

 

What's the Leaf--in the mid-upper 20s pricewise? Good deal cheaper than the Volt.
The best hybrid costwise is the Insight at about $18K. Prius next. $23k or so base.

 

Actually the leaf is $30-33k. And when you add the options it gets really close to the Volt's starting price.

 

You would think with a car with a limited supply or power, they would limit the number of power sucking options you could add! I mean Heat, who needs that.....

 

After tax credits it is about $27K now. That includes nav.

Unlike Volt, Leaf doesn't have many expensive options, either.

 

All models of Leaf include Nav. That's how you find the charging stations. You're not fooling anyone, hehe.

I am in no way a Volt promoter, in fact I like the Leaf more than Volt but there's this notion that the Volt is crazy more expensive than the Leaf when in fact both vehicles are way up there, before tax credits, after tax credits, or whenever.

 

Volt doesn't - and that was the point.

Leaf is same price as Prius after tax credits.

 

Ok I thought you were comparing Leaf trim levels.

Well I've talked to Leaf owners personally and they all seemed to pay ~$39k for theirs. Obviously they have yet to receive their tax rebates, but will they anyway? What about AMT? Average Leaf owners are in the upper 15% of income, you know...

 

Even if the Volt and Leaf were the same, for many it would still be MUCH Cheaper to buy the Leaf. the Volt uses Premium gas and the Leaf with Solar would be a huge savings year over year.

granted it might be beneficial to the 30~% of single car households to have the Volt as a dual purpose vehicle but many current Leaf owners (nearly all of which have multiple vehicles) now use the Leaf as their primary transportation including myself.

fact of the matter; i rarely need to go more than 75 miles in a day and the Leaf will handle that easily. as charging stations continue to proliferate, that need for the 2nd car will continue to be reduced.

now, i dont have solar, so i pay for electricity, but right now (due to Summer and more efficient driving) i am still saving 5 cents per mile driving the Leaf and 7+ cents per mile for all the miles on my Prius i dont have to drive.

now why does mileage on the Prius not driven save me 7+ cents. its all wear and tear, oil change intervals, etc. on the Leaf 5 cents per mile i dont include that , but both vehicles suffer from use. now the cost of the suffering is not linear but close enough for now.

P.S. for those about to flame me, let me add fuel to the fire. my prediction for battery pack technology to replace current technology is less than $3,000

i further predict that Leaf Owners by greater than a 2 to 1 margin will opt to pay more for a better pack option that will either be same capacity but lighter or same size with more capacity.

ok, flame on

 

Probably not They do it because heating the air with the battery is a ghastly use of energy, this is why the Leaf and Volt both I think have been scolded on their cold weather cabin comfort. I've never used a heated steering wheel, though, and heated seats only a handful of times.

MAYBE in some states, not in most. Or you're including an optioned Prius to get to that point. A base Prius is still cheaper than a Leaf.

I wouldn't say easily at all. EPA rates it at 72. That's on a full charge. Nissan recommends 80% charge for normal use and battery longevitiy, which is 57.6 miles--and that's on a fresh battery. Nissan says they expect 80% capacity after five years, so five years in on 80% recommended charge you're at 46 mile range.

I think the Leaf is a better car than the Volt, however.

 

Having heated seats and steering wheel means that it heats you more directly instead of via the cabin air. It's a more efficient way of heating and allows you to set the cabin temperature lower. Similarly, the battery warmer allows for preconditioning which will help the car perform better in winter.

You would benefit if you had those in the Prius, but the benefit wouldn't be as great because the engine generates waste heat.

 

Are those seat warmers for the back, too? Too bad not all passengers have a steering wheel

 

Actually, even most people who have solar will be paying for electricity. If one has a grid-tied system, and at least net-metering, any solar electricity one uses to charge a car is an opportunity cost of electricity which didn't get sold back to the electric company. Other arrangements are similar.

 

I don't think I buy that. The implication is that if you have Solar and don't sell 100% back to the electric company, you're incurring opportunity costs. That's not why you get Solar in the first place.

 

sure some places maybe but not here.

WA State pays 54 cents per KWH generated for Solar panels produced in WA and installed by WA State installer. now there is an exchange of money but its very heavily weighted in favor of the homeowner. now, that sentence bears repeating (CA residents pay attention).

there is a guy Joe (PlugInOlympia) who has solar installed and his average electric bill monthly is about $35 which includes a base connect charge of $17.50 ($7.50 and $10 for gas... ya is a COMBINED energy bill) the actual bill as you might guess varies seasonally but he has elected to get a monthly bill that stays the same. the amount paid monthly is recalibrated every 6 months.

he basically pays the minimum. he also gets a check for power sold back to the ultilty that runs from $500-1000 every quarter.

he has 2 NEV's (no Leaf) that he charges essentially for free before anything goes back to PSE
do the math.

**edit**

just talked to Joe to verify some outdated info. above was from a few years back. he now has SEVEN people in his house (he has no young kids so apparently a few have come back) so his energy needs have skyrocketed so he is actually paying for power now. last year he shelled out over $600...

for some reason i am having a hard time generating any sympathy for him

 

I've seen some EVs described online in the past where they used a small trailer with a gas-powered generator on it. That might be an interesting option. Hook up the trailer for long trips, otherwise leave it at home.

I've wondered how tough would it be to make a car that's more flexible in body design. Have it as a hatchback or sedan most of the time, but need more space, you unfold/pop out some parts, and now you have a wagon. Open up the back part for a mini-pickup.

For me, I very rarely go more than 12 miles from home anyway. When it happens, I'm usually going more than 200 miles, which is maybe 6 times a year, so an EV plus a rental car would work for me. Not that I'm in the new car market anyway. A third of my trips are by bicycle, the rest are in my long-paid-off Prius.

Exactly. Air-cooled VWs didn't have much in the way of heat, and look how many bugs they sold! That was part of the culture, although it probably did limit sales in northern climates (there was an optional gas heater you could get). Growing up, we never had A/C in our cars, but now you can't buy a car without it. I don't need electric windows for that matter, although that's probably not a big drain.

 

Perhaps even just put on a hitch and use those platforms that fit onto the back of hitches that people put coolers onto much of the time. Have the generator secured to that with gas and a socket for your plug

Audi is looking into this technology, though it's integrated (so exactly like the Volt) with a rotary engine for when primary charge dies. The entire idea of range extension from gas is a good concept, it's just the cost ends up being too darn high, at least in the Volt.

Imagine if the Nissan Leaf was as it is now but for, say, $3k you could jack its range up with a gas motor. Now that would be worth it.

 

Yes. You feel cold because your body is losing heat. If the seat and steering wheel provide direct heat, you wouldn't feel cold even though the cabin temp is cold.

It is the more efficient way to keep the driver and passenger feel warm without having to heat the entire cabin warm.

 

AWESOME idea. Better yet, how about you shrink down this external gas generator small enough that it would inside the vehicle somewhere. Say how about under the hood? Then, you could even attach it to the electric motor somehow and it could both propel the car and charge the battery at the same time.

Nah, that's crazy talk and would never work. Forget I ever mentioned it.

 

That's unpossible!