GM: Volt reaches 2 million miles, 1.3 million of them gas-free

puffery.

Apply the Volt rebate to Prius purchases, and then *significant* decreases in oil consumption are possible. Or even better, cut out subsidies entirely, and watch the entire entire fleet convert to 50 MPG, instead of 3000 Volts running around at 100 MPG.

 

Yes, the truth hurts.

How ? Hybrids have had a lot of years to increase their market share - but they have topped out at 3.5%. Even a 400% increase in gas price in the last decade hasn't done much.

 

I'd be interested to see how much fuel is saved with the PHV Prius. I'm fairly impressed with the mixed mode MPG figures this guy obtained.

 

The only vehicles that are out of this category are pure EVs. I see you have a leaf, so bravo.

The best the rest of us can do is contribute less to killing people instead of none at all. I would rather be half as responsible driving a prius versus a volt.

 

Truth ? You must be joking.
What fraction of the US new car buying populace can swing a Prius if motivated ? 100% ?
What fraction of the US car buying populace can swing an unsubsidized Volt/LEAF ? 5% ? 2% ?The oil and pollution and CO2 savings will follow the fleet, not the whims of a couple thousand EV toy enthusiasts.
Ironically, GM put forth a similar argument for their 2-mode SUVs. The difference is that a lot of those people could simply migrate to smaller cars for even greater fuel savings. That point does not carry into the Prius/EV/micro-car debate.

I wrote my suggestion above.

Europe should be an object lesson for you. At $8/gallon fuel prices they are not clamoring for EV, to say the least. Instead they adapted in the most cost efficient manner possible: smaller cars with high fuel economy, and conservation based driving (public transport for long trips.) The main reason Prius has not taken over has to do with market corrupting subsidies of diesel and local diesel manufacturers.

Prius market share in the US is mostly a function of fuel prices. Just look at a graph of monthly sales vs fuel prices. When fuel hit $4 a gallon Toyota could not keep up with demand. At that point sales were limited by supply and dealer speculation.

 

I wish.

I can understand why you don't want to take any personal responsibility for all the ills of oil, but want to hang ills of fossil fuel generated electricity on to (PH)EVs.

What fraction of US car buying populace can afford to burn gas, if it is not subsidized heavily (with blood & money) ?

 

^^ More puffery and hypocrisy.
Tell me, how many gallons of oil have you consumed in the last say .. 200k miles of driving ?

I'l start: 70k at 40 mpg = 1750,
130k at 55 mpg = 2364
Total: 4114 gallons. Incidentally, this number is my oil consumption over 15 years. I started driving when I was 30 years old and a bicycle would not suffice.

When your cumulative oil consumption drops below mine, then at least you will have an anecdotal reason to open your pie-hole. For now you are just full of it.

Now, back to reality: What is the ratio of Prius:LEAF that oil use savings are equal, starting from exchange of 25 mpg cars ? For Prius:Volt, starting from the same assumptions ?

Prius: 50 mpg
Volt: 100 mpg
EV: No oil use, equivalent CO2 to Prius, much higher Nox and Sox compared to Prius.

 

How many coal miners have died powering EVs?

How much of our tax money pays for their black lungs?

Give me a break.

50 years from now we will be going to war with the Middle East for their solar farms.

 

Since there have been about 1 million Prii made, each pre-charged at the factory with a battery that can go about 1-2 miles, in total Prii have also gone about 1.3 million gas-free miles (give or take a few hundred thousand miles).

Or to put this story in other words, the few hundred Volts that have been sold have driven a couple thousand miles each.

 

I have covered this in many posts in the "success or failure" thread but the summary is: 3.1 miles/kWh (as measured by my Kill-A-Watt) average over 1809 miles. EPA rating is 2.78. Personal best week: 3.41. Worst: 2.79.

So your numbers include the thermal management? That's pretty impressive. IIRC, the Tesla can use 3-4 kWh/day managing the pack. Presumably that's a worst case though.

Volt runs the TMS too but I haven't ever caught it with the Kill-A-Watt.

 

Please separate politics from the science of green. I think discussion on politics of domestic vs foreign fuel or number of lives lost due to war or mining coal can go to Fred's house of pancake.

What does 1.3 million "gas-free" miles mean in term of cost, emission or efficiency?

I am with SageBrush. If the cordless hybrids get the same $7,500 tax credit, the market share will be much greater. I have done the math before. The cordless Prius (requiring zero electricity) saves more gas than the Volt, if you compare it to the similarly sized non-hybrid model.

If the goal is to reduce the most amount of gas consumption, cordless hybrids gives the best bang for the buck. The current incentive is directed at promoting the battery since it goes by the kWh of the battery - not by efficiency, emission or amount of gas reduced.

 

For a car that's been out for 7 months and ALL OF THEM to only do about 2 million miles it really helps put in perspective just how few of them really have been sold.

They've sold something like 3000. Does this mean that on average (including December, 2010 cars and June, 2011 cars) they've only driven 600-700 miles? That is hilarious.

*gasping for air between laughs*, are you trying to give me a heart attack? 20k Volts, month, on which planet? At this rate they are selling 20,000 every three years. Their highest sales month was March of this year and they've fallen since, by a small degree. Something is seriously screwed in either their supply line or demand. I can't tell what, as no journalist appears yet to have delved into it. But 2011 isn't getting any longer and Volt's promised sales by GM are to date an abject failure.

 

Thanks for the info. I have not been following those other threads. My figure for the Xebra come from the kill-a-watt meter, from before I switched to the LiFePO4 battery pack, since that charges at a higher current draw than the meter will handle. If there's a difference, it's probably less now since the lithium pack is about 500 lbs lighter than the old lead pack.

The Tesla shows me how much energy it took to charge each time, along with what the charge cost me (I can specify my electric rate in cents per kWh) so yes, that includes energy used for thermal management. The big motor itself is extremely efficient. According to Darell, electric motors tend to become more efficient as they get larger.

 

Man that must be a blast to drive.

 

My average for the Volt over the last 2.5 months (3800 miles) has been 3.44 miles/kWh measured with a TED 5000 on the Volt charging circuit.

 

Toyota designed a hybrid system to fit the need.

GM design a halo system to fit their want.

Big difference.

Niche buyers obviously love Volt. They understand what they were buying and felt it was a good choice. It doesn't work that way for mainstream consumers; need dictates choice for them. Wanting something simply isn't realistic in many cases. They cannot justify the "it's worth it" slogan many Volt owner have been chanting.

Fortunately, what we see in Prius provides a very nice balance of priorities, including affordability. How in the world is Volt going to achieve that?
.

 

Conversion kits void the warranty and do not qualify for tax credit, so are both more expensive and more risky. Bring on the prius phv, and better yet a gen IV with more range. This should be about using less gas, not prius versus volt.

0. There have not been any new coal mines or coal power plants to supply electricity to BEVs. There have been coal miners that created coal converted to gasoline, some was used in military vehicles, some probably died here. I know tax money speant to convert coal to gasoline is higher than spent on PHEV and EVs so far. So deaths for gas, none for EV. Now add those killed in securing oil..... It doesn't seem like a contest.

I am again guessing none. Do you have a figure of the number of coal miners hired to power the EVs. I know the teslas and volts and leaf around here are not increasing increased coal demand.

Have you looked at a map? How much would it cost to lay the cable? solar, wind, geothermal, and natural gas can power an PHEV and BEV fleet indefinitely and all with fuel from north america.

 

Absolutely!

I assume those 3,800 miles were your EV miles, and that you're not including your gasoline miles; in which case, that's an excellent figure.

 

1) It was kind of a joke
2) How did you EV people ever live with all those petroleum related deaths on your consicous prior to having viable alternatives?
3) I'm sure the trans-atlantic phone lines were science fiction and laughed at before their installation and use.

Knowing what technology will be available to transfer/transport energy in the future is something even Nostrodamus or the Mayans didn't wager a guess at.

:cheer2:

 

The Volt is expensive, but it does illustrates a point we have known for years here and that any EV range is a benefit. hopefully this will encourage the market for more price points, including a MUCH better class of NEVs or even highway capable EVs with ranges as little as 50 miles that are commuter only

i will always admire Nissan for their conviction. the Leaf may not be perfect or even the right way to do it. its probably too early to tell how it will fit in the greater picture. it works for me, but in my case, i would have made it work. i am willing to do a lot, others are not. its the others that will make or break the product

answer; about 95% less coal miners than the ones who died so you can spend your time here. electricity has many benefits. lifetime answers to your questions are dwarfed by a months worth of casualities due to burning oil

great #'s. i have also been getting similar numbers on my Leaf. now i opted out of the expensive dedicated 240 volt charger and got my 120 volt EVSE modded by Phil (peef) to charge at 12 amps. now previous to that, i was charging at 120 volts and monitoring with kill a watt and getting about 75% efficiency from the wall.

with the 240 volt mod, i should be doing better but only have had the ability to track it for 5 days My Nissan Leaf Forum • Metering my 240 Modded EVSE and we were out of town (with the Prius for first time in the "Leaf Era") so have not put many miles on the Leaf yet.

but the time to charge is much much quicker and hopefully should push our efficiency up as well