The impact of driving EV

I rarely cross the Bay Bridge at all, maybe 10 - 15 times a year, just isn't part of my commute. And usually when I do, it is in the car, as I am going into the city for some activity with the wife and/or kids. The lanes are really quite narrow on the bridges, the Golden Gate being the worst, so I usually just stay in my lane, even when on the bike. Even when I crossed the Golden Gate reguarly, unless I was really late for something, I didn't split on it. Narrow lanes and lots of tourists looking around in all directions. Just wasn't worth it for me for that short distance, unless traffic was totally stopped.

There are actually a half dozen or more electric bikes availible now. If it fit my commute, I would probly go with the electric over the Ninja 250. But generally I take the Prius, since it actually gets better gas mileage than my motorcycle; and definately is cheaper to run per mile. But also my job requires I dress nice and look presentable, with the bike I have to change clothes and shoes/boots at both ends of my day, and comb/gel my hair in the morning when I arrive. It is pretty much a wash with saving time. But that may change next month when I can no longer use the HOV lanes with the Prius. That maybe the difference in time where it makes sense to take the bike more. When I had a job where I had no dress code, I rode the bike about 4 days a week on average.

But besides costing less per mile than the motorcycle, the car obviously allows me to listen to the radio/books on tape, make phone calls, I don't have to worry about it being too cold, or raining or sweating gross amounts on a hot day. I also just started last year taking my son to school on my way to work, so if I take the bike I would either have to give that up, or take him by car, then come home and get on the motorcycle. It isn't that far out of my way, but just seems a pain, plus bad for the car to drive it less than 2 miles and park it.

 

he is 6, and I am not trying to encourage him, as I am not sure I want him to ride when he gets older. That said, he does have his own Ducati It is battery powered and cool as hell, looks exactly like a scaled down Monster 600 from a few years ago. When he pulls up at his kindergarten on that, he gets noticed! Don't do it more than a couple times last year, as I then have to carry it back home - PITA. For riding on that he has an actual motorcycle helmet, as he thought in necssary, and I was able to pick one up in his size that was scratched with a broken vent tab for super cheap, like $10 since it was going to be tossed. There are 2 dads who pick up their kids on real bikes, but not me, not at that age, one of them even does it without a helmet on the kid!

 

(yawn . . . . . . . ) "entirely grid-powered" ?? Ho boy ... another re-hash of the same ol' same ol' rehash, "but EV's just move the tailpipe" arguement. Another attempt to create drama where there is none. Another uninformed author who completely fails to grasp that the lion's share of EV'rs use their PV solar to supplement, if not completely supplant grid power ... which continues to get cleaner each year anyway. Must be a slow news day. Yep ... we'd best just remain in the status quo, until the silver bullet magically appears.

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He is good for his age, but still, he is only 6. He has a helmet and gloves, so I would only have to get him a jacket. His school is only like a mile or so, so not far, but lots of traffic around a school, lots of parents not looking where they are going, turning to see their kid, texting that they will be late for work, etc.

I have the top box, but don't have it attached unless I am using it, since it ruins the lines IMHO.

Part of me would certainly love to do stuff on the bike with him and my daughter when she is older, as it is something I love and have enjoyed for 20 years. But as someone who has ridden that long, and literally hundreds of thousands of miles by motorcycle, I also understand how dangerous it is. And it is hypocritical, but I don't want my son into it. There is a serious learning curve, that I was lucky enough to live thru, not everyone does. Even once you have it, you can easily be taken out by someone else fairly easily. So even having him on the back with me, riding safe, I can't imagine what it would be like to live with the guilt if god forbid something happened to him. Even if it was a scenario where say I was stopped at a red light and someone rear ended us, and he got hurt. Yes I didn't really do anything wrong, but still, he was hurt while I was supposed to be caring for him. I wouldn't deal with that well. In fact I would guess I would never function well again.

And there are a ton of stories of riders being in the right but dying or getting real hurt. Larry Grodsky (sp?) probly the most respected motorcycle saftey expert/trainer died in an accident a few years back (deer ran into him and knocked him off his bike), so it can happen. Near my home a few years ago a guy was riding down a curvy side road with his wife on the back, someone coming the other way ran wide in a corner and plowed into them, the motorcyclist was clearly in their own lane, he survived, the wife died. Can't imagine the guilt. You had that state rep/senator a few years ago that ran a stop sign, and ran into two couples on bikes, killed 2 or 3 of them. They were just riding down the road, and had the right of way, they didn't have to stop as they were on the more major roadway only the state guy in his SUV was supposed to stop before crossing their way.

 

A battery storage system would be the 'purest' form.
I consider my EV solar powered even though it is grid tied. The Reasoning is that I would not have a system as large as I have if it were not for my plan (when it was installed) to get an EV (or 2).
The system generates more power than is used by my EV. If it didn't, I would say it is only partially powered by solar.
Regardless though, if you include the energy needed to refine the oil into gasoline, I suspect your CO2 savings will be even more on the side of EVs and PHEVs. And as the grid gets cleaner, your use of said power automatically gets cleaner.

 

I wish these studies would include natural gas powered vehicles. Americans don't even think about this alternative to gasoline. It's cleaner than coal or oil, we have abundant resources in the U.S. and unlike BEV, it's about as cheap as making a gasoline engine and has decent range.

Downside is fracking (used in some places to increase production) may contaminate groundwater (altho I bet they could figure out this problem with a bit of research), and it's still a fossil fuel. But it's the cleanest of fossil fuels and we don't have to send our money out of the country to get it. Why we still drive using imported petroleum is beyond me.

 

+1!

 

Don't forget to include the massive emissions from the compression stations. Granted, the transportation costs of coal and oil need to be counted too, but NG compression emissions seem really high.

 

(there, fixed that for you)
You say you aren't anti-ev and then in the following sentance state you are?
I have no problem with people who are anti-ev. If you WANT more localized pollution, if you WANT a weaker US economy, if you WANT a less secure country, then I see no reason to allow anyone to enjoy and drive EVs. Personally I see advantages of not relying on foreign oil, and advantages in not having as much local pollution.

I also understand that for SOME people, EVs are impractical. All I ask is that you realize that for some people EVs ARE practical. In my case, they are vastly superior.

To answer your hypothetical, I don't know. It would depend upon the source of the oil and amount of effort and losses in drilling, transporting, refining, transporting and pumping the oil from well to wheel.
Then, you would need to compare that to the source of the electricity and the amount of losses in gathering (panels, mining, drilling, fission, etc), transporting and charging the EV from 'well' to wheel.

Due to the higher efficiency of the electric motor to the ICE and in my local energy sources, I suspect it comes out slightly in favor of the EV. But close enough to call it tied. However, that is simply an educated guess.
Luckily that is a snapshot of right now. Over the life of the vehicle, the grid (in my area) is adding more wind and renewables and getting cleaner in general. As this improves, the CO2 cleanlyness of the EV will automatically get cleaner.
As new ICE technology comes out to make cleaner engines, I unfortunately wouldn't see those benifits until I buy a new vehicle.

 

blah blah blah

Much easier way to do this

40+ kwh (oil)/gallon gasoline /(50mpg prius) = 0.8 kwh oil/mile prius
Note this number is low, most oil takes more than this. Think tesla verus porsche and you see as the engine power goes up the car fleet takes much higher amounts of oil, but not electricity.

2 kwh natural gas / kwh electricity * 0.34 kwh/mile leaf = 0.68 kwh natural gas/mile leaf

0 kwh fossile fuel from wind / kwh electricity *0.43 kwh/mile leaf = 0 fossil fuel in wind/mile leaf.

Now consider that natural gas and wind are the new power to the grid, that natural gas and wind are less scare than gasoline and that 40 kwh of oil per kwh gasoline is a low estimate and the amount is getting higher, EVs are more efficient. But that is not the point. Oil is more scarce and requires larger losses to the economy. The utility of oil is higher, so the efficiency should be multiplied by a utility factor.

This is like saying lets pretend if we are not running out of oil and it is free why not use it faster. The big reason to go electric is in the future better energy sources can fuel transportation. Your argument is simply on the face of it wrong. Also very little of the US's electricity comes from oil, just over 1% this is falling. Assuming we will move to a more expensive, more polluting, more scarce fuel is simply an attempt to pretend electrification can only use oil.

Solar displaces mainly natural gas, and that or wind will get used to charge the car. This time translates to load level making the grid with solar and night charging evs more efficient.

And making false arguments is simply an excuse to not get there. It will take generations of PHEV and EV cars to transform transportation. As oil gets more scarce there simply is no reason not to make cars at least PHEVs.

 

Just to make sure I am not misunderstanding you. Is it your position that EVs are not practical for anyone?

 

What's your point? The Prius isn't a direct "car" replacement for all car owners, either. Go troll any other place where the general car public hangs out and you'll find just as many people bashing the Prius as "impractical" as you seem to find people here bashing EVs as "impractical". It's crazy.

Does that mean Toyota should stop promoting the Prius?

I think that people who feel that EVs are impractical are very much blinded by their personal situation. Do the current crop of EVs work for everyone? No! Does that mean we should stop getting people out of gas guzzlers and into EVs where it makes sense? No!

 

Has this trailer been posted yet? Sounds fun.
I like the part where GM's Lutz says people were accusing him of killing their grand kids (pre-Volt). That statement captures the emotions we hear in favor EV.