Prius vs Volt

nailed it.

 

That's a great perspective of the Volt. It is electrically assisted because without electricity from the plug it is just a 37 MPG 4 seater compact that runs on premium gas.

 

When calculating MPG for the Volt, or the plug-in Prius, for that matter, is the fuel burned to charge the batteries when the car is plugged-in simply ignored, or is it somehow included in the calculation?

 

The EPA labels can be seen here (click on the PHEV tab):
New Fuel Economy and Environment Label
It shows an MPGe (equivalent) for the electric-only range, MPG for the extended range, and the expected distance of electric-only range. So no, it's not ignored on the label - but many people will ignore it by only comparing the extended range; I have yet to see many people comparing the electric-only efficiency of PHVs.

 

The answer is that it doesn't take into consideration how the electricity was generated, only that it wasn't generated by the onboard ICE.

So if you took a Prius ICE out of the Prius and burned gasoline to generate electricity to charge the Prius PHV, it would represent something like 131 MPGe. While the same engine onboard the Prius represents 50 MPG. Not very logical but that is how it is.

I am almost certain that the Prius PHV will get > 100 MPGe under EV mode.

 

If you are going to compare the Volt to the Prius you might as well factor in the driving experience. And in my opinion I would say the Volt's ride is far more comfortable to that of the Prius. Not that the Prius is uncomfortable but the Volt's ride and handling just doesnt feel like an economy car like that of the Prius.I must say though, I hate the dash and the center console of the Volt.

Although if I were to choose between the two, Id get a Prius PHV any day. Much cheaper.

 

Honestly, I think this is just a bad comparison. The cars play in 2 very different price points (assumed, actually, since Plug in Prius isn't out yet). They also sell to 2 very different demographics.

Plus, the author is needlessly confrontational and antagonistic (imo) in his writing style. My first thought when reading it was ... "What's he so angry about?"

Just my opinion as a very happy Prius owner who's happy to see more and more diverse high-efficiency cars on the market.

 

This is a little OT, but I sat in a Leaf for about 5 minutes on Sunday, which in the moment I thought was great and even said it looked nicer than the Prius. But after I got in my Prius, I realized the Prius interior is actually much nicer (and this is a shabby old Gen II too). The Prius' black dashboard, smooth instrument layout, and dark accents trump the gimmicky looking iPad-looking plastic in the Volt and Leaf. In essence, compared to the Volt/Leaf interiors, the Prius felt like a luxury car....

 

The Volt seems to be a niche vehicle occupying a fairly narrow niche: a good solution for someone whose daily travels are <40-ish miles (assuming no possibility of recharge at work) AND who wants to use the SAME vehicle for a few longer trips as well.

But as far as commuting goes, commutes >20 miles each way are common: at least 4 of the 7 people who worked for me commuted further than that. And no way to recharge at work.

I bought the Insight-I in 2006 for commuting 34 miles each way to work, and it worked out great (low 80's mpg in winter, 100mpg in summer). But if I didn't have the Insight-I and if I were still commuting (I retired), one option would be to get a Leaf as a zero-mpg commuter car that would be a lot cheaper than a Volt. STM 100 miles covers a lot more people's commuting than 40 miles. In that case I'd keep the Subaru I had and use it for trips until I could afford to replace it with a non-PHV Prius as my trip-mobile.

This seems like a strategy a 2-vehicle family might use.

 

My wife drives into town between 1 and 3 times a day, each time driving 10 - 30 miles. A 50 mile EV would work *great* for her.

At least through the summer I'll drive 500 miles once a week, so an efficient ICE car is the best alternative for that use.

Homogenize it all together and I'm sure GM would say two Volts are the ticket

 

When the first hybrids EVER came out they were a niche product as well. Advertise to take the hassle out of just going to the gas station and just being green. Who knew the gas prices would soar in a decade? All great things begin as a niche market. I wouldnt discredit the Volt just because it seems like a niche at the moment.

I think people in general just need to remember this is a FIRST GENERATION vehicle. There are definitely things Chevy needs to work out, but judging at what it is; its good.

btw, i do not know if any of you guys keep up with car blogs, but a lot of leaf owners are developing "range anxiety." Once youre out of juice, youre SOL and need to call a tow truck. I think thats the only thing weening me away from a pure EV vehicle. I would probably start having panic attacks after 30 miles xD

 

Wako, I think much of the angst directed at the Volt is the price and how much of it was subsidized. I think the Volt would be an excellent car if they price were about $10k cheaper than it is now. I'm sue prices will come down but I hope that doesn't meant the car will be stripped either. Much like they are doing right now to bring the price down under $40k.

 

I like the Volt in the sense that it's moving people out of their Tahoe's and Subdivisions who would never consider a Japanese vehicle. This is a good thing for the environment as a whole.

I don't know what it's going to take to cure America of it's SUV addiction.
I'm not an overly enthusiastic Greenie and I do realize that some people have a need for a large vehicle to tow or haul with. My issue is not with them.
I do get peeved driving in traffic however and see wave after wave of SUV's and pickups with a single occupant being used for commuting or errand running.

 

The Volt might be a niche vehicle now but when the PHV comes out that niche will be so paper thin as to be irrelevant. Seriously, who drives 35-40 miles/day only and never further and never less?

Already happening. Even though many such people claim "I don't care about gas prices" they are lying to themselves. They do care, and it hurts and they know it. The more often and for longer periods gas hits $4 or maybe even higher the less they feel they need a 16 mpg city vehicle.

Also, with more Priuses on the road, the less they'll seem silly. When I got mine some friends made fun of me and I've actually converted one to them now; if they were not so expensive I think he'd get it. Only took a year

 

op2:
Are we talking PRIUS versus Volt or PHV versus Volt?
Either comparison is interesting, but if G3-II's are averaging $27K a copy, where is the PHV going to break out, and how is that going to compare with the Volt?

I'm seeing a lot of negative energy directed at GM's car which, like the G3, I can actually purchase right now if I wanted to. Seems kind of odd for an ECO box to draw this much friendly fire, but that's PC for you. Some of the points are interesting and informative.
Others...not so much.

It will be both interesting and informative to see how a for-real PHV and a Volt actually stack up one against the other.
Both of them are out of my depth band, but it will make for an interesting stare and compare.

I hope popcorn is healthy.
Been eating a lot of the stuff lately...

 

Where does that come from?? According to
The 3rd Generation Toyota Prius Hybrid models and prices
G3-II MSRP is $23,500, plus about $800 delivery plus $200 for the mandatory useless floor mats, so figure $24,500 OTD (not counting the usual mystery paperwork fee, registration, and sales tax).

 

People have been coping with nonlinear gas gauges for years. Without needing therapy.
My motorcycle has a range of 150 miles. Not aware of any permanent damage to my psyche from that, even from touring in thinly populated rural areas where the gas stations were few and far between.

 

I think EVs would more utility if it had about a 100 mile range in what I would consider slightly demanding conditions (something like a 6.5 in a 1 to 10 scale).

I believe you have to cover 80% of scenarios, even if those scenarios only occur 20% of the time.

With 100 miles, you can have a 30 mile commute, with enough juice to run an additional 10 miles for errands and lunch or pick up the kids, etc., and make it back home on the same charge.

Since the Leaf is version 1.0, I'm sure we'll see it and its competition with bigger range in the future. Or Nissan can offer a version with extended range.

 

Yes, but what are we willing to pay to get those extra miles? I think GM tried to balance the mile range vs. price, and that's what they came up with. I have no better numbers.

But I think some of us are missing the point on the MPG. Let's assume a 70 mile commute. If it goes 35 miles on the charge, then 35 miles on the gas engine (assuming 35 MPG), you are getting 70 MPG over those 70 miles. I admit I'm omitting electricity charges, but I can't figure out how to add that in. I think that's pretty good MPG. Of course, the longer you drive it without charging it, your MPG goes down.

If for 105 miles, that would be 52.5 MPG (gee I hope my math is right). I think those are still pretty good numbers.

I also like the looks of the Volt. But I ain't paying that much money for it. I really like my Prius!

Mike