$40K Price tag- Fair Guess for initial roll-out?

I think he meant it more temporally, prices now as compared to prices then more so than a difference between market and sticker prices.

 

My God filling is that Toyota would like to have a large piece of the market and outbid the Volt price for a nice margin with a semi basic package.

 

The first year they are limiting distribution and production, which means they are not going for a large part of the market. I have no idea on price, but I think it is higher than it was when initially bought in on. This is at least for the 2012 my.

 

My God takes no position on the prospective sales price of an automobile

 

You don't worship Automous, Greek God of personal transportation?

 

Chevrolet Volt Electric Car | Available Nationwide End of 2011 | Chevrolet.com

For comparison, 2012 Volt pricing is out. The Base model after tax credit MSRP is at $31,645.

 

The high premiums for PHEV are absurd. The math is pretty simple: The technology will give most people 13 mikes of gas-free driving per day. At best, the technology offers 26 miles gas-free.

Let's do the best-case math: 26 miles per day saves a Prius owner half a gallon of gas, or about $2.00. Assuming electricity is free (it isn't) and you charge twice a day (you won't), the cost savings would be 365 x $2 per year. $730, minus electricity costs.

More likely, your actual savings will be less than half that, because electricity costs money and you won't charge/operate that way. So real-world savings is maybe $300 to $400 per year. $2,000 savings in five years. Would you really pay $5,000 more for that? Would most people?

Hybrid Synergy Drive already adds a few thousand dollars to the price of Prius. Now the battery is larger, and there's another inverter. Is a larger battery really worth $5,000? It's a big battery, but it's only a battery.

 

This will be interesting to see what Toyota prices and the option packages will be. Compitition is ramping up. This price point will make or break these vehicles and possibly the car companies because of the resources invested. Who will deliver what the consumer wants/likes in the total package( vehicle, Design, options,price and reliability) to name a few concerns. Toyota has a bulls eye on their back and everyone is taking aim. It is hard to remain the front runner. Don't get me wrong i love my Prius and Toyota but how many top products and companies fell in time. All i know is it will all benefit us the consumer with more options and better products.

 

You're assuming that cost is the only factor here. 182.5 gallons of gas a year or almost 1000 gallons of gas in 5 years IS a big deal. It may not be big money in the grand scheme of things but if 1 million people saved 1000 gallons of gas that equals a lot of gas.

 

The actual gas savings will be about half that much, but if we use your figures, you're saying that spending $5 billion to save 1 billion gallons of gas is a good idea. On a purely macroeconomic level, I disagree.

I am not trying to discredit the car. I own a Prius and I would like to buy the PHV. My only point is that I believe a $5,000 premium is too much, particularly given that Hybrid Synergy Drive already extracts a premium of about $2,000 - $4,000.

I certainly hope that people make this kind of social investment in the vehicles they purchase. Energy-saving technology is supposed to save money. If PHV adds $5,000, and you add the higher tax, vehicle registration fees, insurance and loan interest payments, it's a bad investment, and the only benefit of spending so much would be California's limited-time commuter lane stickers.

 

Yes, yes, yes! Going once, twice, Sold!

2012 Toyota Prius PHEV (Plug-In): Features, Pricing and Release Date - GreenHybrid.com - The Interactive Hybrid Car Resource

 

If the base price is under $30,000 for models available in 2012 I'll eat my hat.

 

$29,000? That depends, but if that's for a $23,000 Prius II, it's a $6,000 battery.

 

Well, we know that new technology does cost more initially. A barebone Audi A3 TDI which is basically a VW and a different sheet metal with destination starts at $31,600 dollars, which is more than a loaded Prius Five. I would put the price argument to rest for now until anounced.

 

Are you going for MSRP with this, or can we include the tax break that will be available, and Toyota is undoubtedly counting on?

Also, what type of hat are we talking here? Maybe a nice pork pie hat? (No fair eating just the pork pie part of it, though.)

 

Isn't $40k - $7.5k = $32.5k? That's still expensive for a compact 4 seater. If the midsize Prius PHV costs less, Volt will be less appealing - especially because Prius PHV qualfies in the CA HOV lane and Volt doesn't. Prius PHV uses regular gas and Volt requires premium. 50+ MPG vs 37 MPG. 3 hours full charge with a regular plug vs 4 hours with the $2k fast charger. E-AT-PZEV emission vs ULEV.

 

I agree and there is a good chance that the Prius PHV may be rated at a higher combined mpg after EV depletion, probably 55mpg or higher. Also, the mph at which the ICE comes on when in HV mode may be higher for the PHV resulting in higher mileage.

Insideline said the PHV was more efficient than a cordless Prius in their test after EV battery depletion.
2010 Toyota Prius PHV Prototype Full Test and Video

 

GM isn't counting delivery charge or some other dealer cost in the "MSRP" but yeah its really $32.5k, and I agree the HOV access will be a big factor in desirability, hopefully GM gets that worked out sooner rather than later.

 

Nice. My prediction is $5K above the similarly featured conventional hybrid.

Another thing Toyota should consider is the likely price of Ford C-Max Energi. A larger plug-in hybrid with a larger EV range - a more formidable competitor than the smaller 4-seater Volt. I expect that to be about $30K after tax credit and available mid 2012.

C-Max Energi: How will C-Max Energi be priced ?