New Poll: Americans Shun Electrics

OK... it is time to get off that horse. Do you think that the gasoline you are burning is NOT subsidized? Or call it socialized. Whatever... I'm paying for part of the gasoline you are burning. Have a look at a few bits of information, and we can continue the discussion about who is supporting what... and what we *should* be supporting.

Gasoline and Oil

 

I believe I said "unsustainable and getting worse" - but dirty works as well. I'm talking about the fuel. How we pump it from the ground, refine it, distribute it. I wasn't even talking about how we burn it. Yes, the cars themselves are getting cleaner at consuming it... but the fuel is getting dirtier and DEFINITELY less sustainable as we move forward. It doesn't matter how clean the Prius is if the discussion is about sustainability of the fuel.

The Prius is NOT a good model for sustainability. The Prius is a good model for keeping our mobile independence and using fewer resources to do it. Same can be said about EVs. But there does not exist a private, powered automobile that is sustainable. Doesn't matter if it is gas, diesel, ethanol, CNG, hybrid or electric. Private automobile transportation is not sustainable.

But again... I was only talking about the fuels in my statement that you were surprised about. Every day gasoline goes DOWN in sustainability, and electricity generation goes up. Neither is sustainable at this point, of course.

Oh, but the political reasons could well be as important as any other. We fund petrodictatorships when we buy oil. Our country's politics are effected by who we have to play nice with because of oil. We have wars because of oil. The economic hit we take because of oil is enormous - when you buy gas, 90% of your money leaves your state. A full 60% leaves the country. The country loses about 2 billion dollars every day! Make no mistake - the politics of your choice of transportation is something that needs to be seriously considered, no matter how good the science is.

 

Awesome. Soon I won't have to even post. Here you've said in two sentences what took me paragraphs to try and explain!

We love Rae.

 

Could work or not depending on your situation.

With you living in CA it is hard to make an argument for EV commuter, when you can get a motorcycle for fraction of cost.

 

You did not get the idea.
With gas cars like Prius you drive 500 mi, stop 2 minutes refil and go on your way for the next 500 mi. With Leaf for the same 1000 mi you need few days because you have to recharge few hours.

 

They are not simplistic posts; Just people that know what they need.
Cars like Leaf are working only for few people that have money to throw around.

My opinion is that the answer for now is car like prius plug -in 2012, which can be used EV for a short range, and for long range you use the same car.

Cars like Prius can be used for a transition car, but not the leaf, which is more like an experimental car, and also more expensive.

 

Maybe that's not such a bad thing.

 

Correct. Here is the math:

It takes ~7hr to get a full charge for Leaf battery pack from 240V, 20hr from standard 120v outlet. Assuming availability of 480v quick charge stations, 80% charge takes 30min. (Taken from Nissan site)

Range:
At 55 mph on the highway in 95 degree temps and A/C on, expect range to be 70 miles
Nissan pegs Leaf range between 47 and 138 miles, individual results may vary — Autoblog Green

So basically you'd get 70mi from 1st charge, and then 56mi from consequent quick charge. In best case scenario you can drive 70mi from home at 55mph, then 55mi every 1.6hr. Theoretically you could drive 840mi in 24hr.

For comparison Prius driven at 70mph will get you 1674mi in the same 24 hours.

Even in some Sci-Fi scenario you cannot drive Leaf 1000mi in 24hrs. Leaf is a commuter/grocery getter, not a travel vehicle.

You can make a case that you can get rental for traveling, but in then you are no longer saving money.

 

Why in the HELL do any of you want to drive 1000 miles in a day??

This "fact" is as useful as 0-60mph times in an urban setting.

 

The way electric cars are over rated, you would need one rated for 1000 miles in a day to be able to go 500 miles in a day.

 

Kinda like advertising hwy MPG only?

 

No, because I can beat advertized highway MPG on the highway anytime I want and I know enough to take a look at city MPH even though it's largely meaningless because of the extreme variations in city driving.

I can also depend on a gas engined car getting basically the same mileage as it did new when it has 200k miles on it.

EV range claims can typically only be met under near ideal condition and the range gets worse as the batteries age or if you have the audacity to use the heater in the winter.

 

Yeah the "no politics" thing I said was silly, but it was fun saying it. Its all politics. I actually share some similar emotions, but I always thought it was the electrification/utility special interests that ruled Congress and states. Take the current mega-discounts for EV's, PHV's as one example of their enduring "power".

 

So you are saying you can think and use deductive reasoning? The same skills that would let you plan your use in an EV?

Saying a normal person can't drive a limited range EV is the same thing as saying someone who expects to get 40mpg will run out of gas 130 miles early when they drive in the city all the time.

 

Not you business ..... ,
but if you asked lets say that I have to go to Airport, or in Florida, or or the ocean in weekend, or to visit my sister, or to visit my friends in north Carolina, or to visit other friends in Tennessee or................. you need more ????????

What happens if we get read of Gas cars and we replace them with Electric cars? We stay home? always? you need more than electric cars; you need electric cars with range and fast charging.

The Leaf is nice but does not work.

What happens if you buy the Leaf based on your current job and get laid off, and next job is not that close? you buy third car? :frusty:

 

What are your sources that the US loses $2 bill / day from our gas in car usage? Are you saying the govt. pays out 2 bill/day to subsidize oil?

 

Not sure it is 2 Billion a day.

But we have paid 1 TRILLION over the last decade to "secure" oil.

Now, we aren't even talking about all the blood shed - nor about all the health care costs because of injuries in the wars or because of toxic emissions.

 

Exactly.

If 43% is shunning - then iPhone has been a disastrous failure at only 25%.

 

I wouldn't say LEAF is an experimental car. For quite a few people, it could be used for the majority of their daily trips. It would seem best as a 2nd car for a couple. For a family of 5, something like a Prius v and a LEAF would be an awesome combo. Or CamHy or HiHy, depending on what kind of playing you do.

Also, soon as you hit over 60 on hwy in Pri PHV, your gas engine is going. I think it may kick on if you hit the gas pretty hard to with range left. With LEAF, could easily pull off a 40 mile round trip commute day in and out.

 

Government does not lose money with gas. In Europe about 70%, 75% from the gas prices are taxes, so the government is happy with gas.
They make wars because few people make money on wars. We have enough gas at home but again few people do whatever they can to stop drilling here.

A lot of technologies are stopped in the US.
For example in stores like Home Depot, here USA, in Europe carry Solar panels, Solar water heating panels, that would decrease a lot energy consumption. For some reason they are blocked here, where you have a lot more sunny days than Europe has.