New Poll: Americans Shun Electrics

I am all for electric however there 2 major issues:
- with exception of West Coast and a few mid-west states electric produces more pollution then Prius hybrid
- charging takes several hours, while fueling takes a few minutes.

we will consider electric when you can drive 1000mi a day on it or worse case 5-600mi minimum.

 

*Cough*

 

I would say that the PUBLIC infrastructure for EV's doesn't yet exist. Those work and mall plug in's are far too rare. Could they be created quickly? I think so.

For me personally? I absolutely love the idea of a full electric and/or The Plug in Prius. But I rent, I don't own my home. This precludes me from serious consideration of plug in ownership. Right now? To own an EV or even upcoming Plug In Prius you pretty much need access to a privately owned garage.

This is why I'm very interested in the upcoming Prius c...perhaps 60mpg and NOT having to plug it in...might be the most efficient I can be....

 

Pollution is not an issue for some. Some people care more, or only, about national security and the trade deficit. Both of which EVs will help (and to a lesser extent hybrids will as well).

I do feel sorry for your situation that requires you to have a vehicle capable of driving 1000 miles at a shot. You have my sympathy. Luckily we don't and will most likely be a two EV family within a year or two.

While charging does take hours, it takes no time out of my trips. I 'fuel up' in 15 seconds at the end of my trip home instead of taking time out of my schedule to pull off the road, fuel up, and then get back on the road. Not needing to do this is especially nice when I am in a hurry, or weather is bad (I hate gassing up when it is below zero out, brrrrrrrr....)

 

Actually....I did take your response in a friendly teasing manner, although my response may have been more barbed than I intended, for which I offer humble apologies.
Although debates...or more aptly in this case....discussions can be frank, they should always be respectful.
I always try to use light, rather than heat to illuminate a point.

Having said alllllll of that, I still submit that the infrastructure for EVs hasn't even reached the point of where you could call it embryonic.
There are like....zero public charging stations within 50 miles of where I'm sitting. Although I can easily charge an EV both at home and at work, making me a statistical outlier to be sure, there are a lot of places that I have to (let alone want to....) drive that aren't at home and at work.
My house is 9 miles from work.
Most of my driving is done within 150 miles of where I live.

Still...there's no way on earth I could get a ROI on a Leafy vehicle, and the utility of this vehicle would be diminished by it's sub-100 mile range, diminished cargo capacity, and multi-hour charge time to the point where I'd still have to keep one of my gas burners handy for 'real' driving, so the "luuuuuve the earth" factor would be limited as well.

Cool hobby, but I'll just have to keep my electric bill under $100, my water bill under 15, recycle, and hug the planet in other ways.

Develop EVs?
Hell yes!

Make me drive one???
Uhhh.....
NO! Sorry.... Not yet.

 

Oh, I know! Pick me!

... because we're hell-bent on destroying ourselves and our environment by remaining ignorant to reality.

 

I'll consider gas when I can drive 1000 miles a day on fuel that I produce cleanly and for free on my roof. When NONE of my transportation fuel money leaves this country to fund people who hate us. I'll consider gas when when I can control where my fuel comes from, and it is magically made non-polluting.

It is easy to come up with the things that are scary about new technology. Take a deep breath and think about the huge benefits for a moment. Not everything has to be, "How will it impact my sedentary lifestyle?"

 

Sounds like you are a NIMG (Not In My Garage) person when it comes to EVs.

I'm also pro-EV, but not enough so to buy one.

 

Considering that the current production is in the low thousands per month, I don't think anyone needs to worry about being 'made' to drive one.

Even at 10 million per year it would take 25 years to replace all the current crop of US cars. So the question becomes, will you be able to get yours before gas is unobtainable. When gas is rationed to 3 gallons per week, a car that goes 100 miles every day will look awfully sweet.

 

I find your viewpoint and attitude laudable. Very laudable. But I would ask, is it that black and white? For the majority is it that simple?

I think most people would like to be able to have access to transportation inwhich they could control production, cost, originating genesis, and social and political impact. But a great majority of people without blame, simply do not have the time, money or resources to embrace these options.

For a great majority, they cannot afford installation of Solar Panels on roofs they may not even own. They cannot afford EV's or even most hybrids.

This leaves them with bicycles, public transportation or the dreaded and much maligned gas operated vehicle.

I'm all for advancement. New technology. But those not able to afford or ready to embrace it? It's not as simple as defaulting to the idea that if you aren't driving an EV or Hybrid powered or supplemented by solar power created electricity, that you are simply defending your sedentary lifestyle. Most people must make degrees of compromise in lifestyle afforded to them by numerous outside realities.

There's a gap between the ideal, and the real. In many ways you can be a pioneer of the ideal...but I think one should be understanding of those unwilling or unable to join you on that frontier.

For most it's not a matter of "considering gas"...Gasoline is simply still the most popular form of operation of the majority of automobiles sold and available. That's the reality in face of the ideal.

 

Wonderfully written. And thank you for a great post. No, obviously it is NOT that simple. And my little barbs were just responses in kind to the OTHER simplistic comments, "I won't drive one until it has more range, faster refuel time, lower cost...." I am only trying to counter the simple shallow arguments against EVs with deeper arguments FOR EVs... arguments that I agree are far too simplified and "black and white" to work in a general sense. But I've only got so much time to post, ya know?

I'm not so sure that these aspects are even a blip on the RADAR of the car-buying public. What color? How cool does it look? How fast does it go? How many cup holders and DVD players does it have? - THOSE are the important aspects to the car-buying public.

The only difference we have here is that I do assign a bit of blame to public apathy. To the "not enough time" concept: When I hear somebody tell me that I have too much time on my hands (because I ride my bike almost everywhere) I usually respond with a question: How much TV do you watch? Of course I agree that there are always going to be a subset of the population that has to get by with the absolute least. I contend that very VERY few - if any - of the posters in this thread fall into that category. If you have a computer, internet access and the time to post here, I'll bet there's some free time and money in that system that could be put to better use than defending gasoline cars.

The great majority of... who? Americans? World population? I keep reading this term "great majority" and I don't believe it. The "great majority" somehow manages to eat junk food when real food is cheaper. They manage to buy big-screen TVs when the little ones work just as well and cost far less. I guess it all depends on what group of people we're talking about. How many millions of NEW gasoline cars are sold every year? How many cost more than $25,000? We're not trying to build EVs for EVERYBODY at this stage. Hell, there aren't enough EVs to fill demand for a long while. We just need to start building them... and educating the driving masses on the benefits. Right now ignorance is our biggest enemy as can be seen in this very thread. No, a solar-powered EV is not for everybody.

All true. I still contend that folks who buy 6,000 pound SUVs (and I'm just using the generic "SUV" here for any grotesquely large, heavy, unsuited-for-public roads, poor gas mileage vehilce) for the express purpose of commuting solo to work - and I see thousands of these every day - have choices. THEY are the ones defending their sedentary lifestyle. Or myopic lifestyle. Or vain lifestyle. Or ignorant lifestyle. Take your pick. Of course they are protected under the umbrella of "rights." They have the god-given right to drive any vehicle they can afford to drive - no matter how much damage it does. So yeah... those degrees of compromise - I agree. We all make choices. But when your choice of vanity vehicle could have purchased a vehicle that didn't stomp on my rights for clean air and water, healthier economy, fewer wars... well that's where I have an issue. There will always be those who can't afford the latest technology. Those who can't afford ANY sort of car. As it is, my EV is the cheapest car to own that I've ever had.

Yes, that was obviously tongue-in-cheek.

 

Makes me wonder if we should stick with the wildly UN-sustainable fuel model we have today - one that gets worse every month. Or should we continue to work toward the sustainable future of electrons as fuel - a model that gets better every month? Do we wait until EVs and the infrastructure is perfect before we begin the transition? Can we afford to do so?

Yes, today we make electricity from many polluting sources. That is changing. Slowly, but it is changing. Electricity is getting cleaner. Gasoline is getting dirtier.

The fact of the matter is, gasoline is and always has been un-sustainable and is getting worse. Electricity CAN be sustainable and is getting better. We subsidize both of them today.

 

I used to live in a small town where every public parking spot had an electrical outlet, and every car and truck had a cord hanging out the front. (Winters were so cold that the car's engine block could freeze while you were in shopping.) So, the infrastructure was there, and this was nearly fifty years ago. Sure, California's weather is a little warmer most of the time, but adding a few electrical outlets is far simpler and cheaper than growing the petroleum infrastructure.

Reality? That's a TV show, right?

 

How about just rent the second vehicle? I have rented cars for 15 per day. NO need for extra payment and insurance. Insurance can be considerable if you have assets and need more than minimum coverage.

 

So get this... here in CA where we've had EVs for a while... there are over 4,000 public chargers. There are over 50 public chargers within a 20 mile radius of my house. And even a 50 kW Quick Charger. If that is "no infrastructure" then we need a new definition of "no."

I understand that there isn't much out your way right now. Why would there be? There have been no cars that could use it - imagine the outcry if we spent money installing useless chargers. The cars are coming and so is the infrastructure. Should we prevent those people from buying EVs who want them now... until we have the infrastructure built out? With all the free chargers I have access to around here I need public charging approximately NEVER. 99% of our charging is done at home. With sunshine.

 

I 'need' a bike?
Actually....I have one, and I ride it.
Unfortunately, when somebody (or somebodys) try to put themselves in a position where they're telling somebody else what they 'need'....or what they 'aught' to do, they often fail to fully consider the needs of the person that they're advising.
Yeah...I know.
You didn't mean it like that. No worries....I didn't take it like that either.

Unfortunately most of us that live outside the warm embrace of urban sprawl find it a little more challenging to consider a bicycle as a serious means of transportation. Nine miles is an easy ride in an urban/suburban environment, or in a place where bi-ped transportation is built into the public transportation infrastructure.
(There's that word infrastructure again... )
If you ride, you already know what I'm talking about.
THAT'S just getting to work in one piece. There are also considerations of pax and cargo.

I take chances enough with a 900-cc, 600-pound motorcycle!

Like I said earlier....this isn't a binary argument! The fact that 40-percent of Americans (as polled) would consider an EV should leave Electrocar enthusiasts with the warm glow of happiness, and with the expectation that if the idea ever reaches technological maturity, then the number will rise further still.

I'm pretty satisfied with my eco habits (in case you haven't guessed... ) If I had a six-figure income, or lived in a city, or didn't have some of the commitments that family, work, and my military hobby bless me with, I guess I could shave a few more pounds off of my carbon footprint---but for right now I'm going to have to keep ruining the planet with my gas burners.

Somebody has to earn the money to replace all of the tax income that goes into EV and solar subsidies (aren't most batteries and solar panels made in China???)
I don't specifically have a problem with that BTW....as I said earlier. I'm a closet EV enthusiast.
I just can't use one myself right now.

 

Well I am a little surprised you would say dirtier getting worse, since we are both Prii owners and that is a good model of improvement and sustainability. Don't get me wrong, gotta get me some tax credit too if it lasts long enough to take advantage.

Here I guess is the reason we are all debating: on the first level, there is the scientific/technical winner of the day, and we all probably accept that outcome. The next level down are the political choices, and we do have choices, and that is the more interesting but divisive debate. Sort of like ethanol was a choice. Alls I am trying for, if we chose EV, that it be for good science and not political reasons.

 

I beg to differ. If people wait and wait and wait until "things get better" (and things won't) before they cramp their style with more environmentally friendly concepts ... it'll be too late. Transportation fuel/money go overseas to terror countries because it's too inconvenient to take a bus (sometimes) ... or because it's too inconvenient to wait for CFL's to brighten up ... it's too inconvenient to have a 2nd car that can't go "1,000 a day". 1,000 mile a day? Really? That's averaging about 60mph for over sixteen hours a DAY !! See how people are ... see how they think? Fact is, our country's citizens ARE (in many instances) stupid, lazy, fat, and gleefully ignorant. Often they're not financially well off either. THAT doesn't seem to matter. Every time I go down to WalMart and see some 100 pound over weight (wo)man sitting in their 16 year old beater/land barge ... motor running for the AC to work & keep their extra 100lbs of lard cooled down ... so they don't have to exorcise by getting out of the car and going into the air conditioned store ... I realize gas is STILL too cheep and over-subsidized. Same with automobile cruisers ... out on the boulevard running their cars as mobile amps ... for blasting their 20kW over-based stereos ... up and down the street ... back and forth ... back and forth. When people working dead end jobs can't afford to do that any more ... only THEN is gas at the right price ... and (sadly) only then will many others consider EV's.
Yes - I beg to differ ... it's not necessarily about impoverished people just trying to get by all the time. Even with PV solar ... every day I hear radio ads running how for NO upfront money, various companies will install systems for FREE (generally if your utility bill is over $100) if you have a roof to set 'em up on. Sure, that's not gona work for apartment dwellers. But the fact that the majority don't even consider opportunities like that, speaks volumes about the way we think as a whole.

 

wjtracy. Meet Darelld. He's had an EV since before EVs were cool.

His Prius is his gas-guzzler that he hates using. For most of his family's automotive needs, they drive their EV. If he can avoid driving the EV, he does, choosing to ride his bicycle.

Just because we drive Prius, doesn't mean we don't understand or acknowledge that reliance on oil is unsustainable. Prius is a better gas burning car, but it's still a gas burning car.

 

Hi Rae- Well I know Darelld well as the guy who recommended a Saris roof rack to me a long time ago. He was right about that. So we shall see. But I agree CA and WA is different story. Sometimes the rest of us benefit from the CA ideas too.